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Markakis being inducted into Os HOF

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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10 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Are there some kind of eligibility rules that make Markakis eligible but not Jones yet? Markakis last played MLB in 2020, Jones in 2019. If it's based on when they last played the Orioles, why did J.J. Hardy get in before Markakis? I don't get it.

No clue.

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Sports Guy
Sports Guy

2024 class also includes Terry Crowley and long time scout Dick Bowie.   https://www.mlb.com/orioles/history/orioles-hall-of-fame?partnerId=zh-20240503-1256644-BAL-1-A&qid=13&utm_id=

Sports Guy
Sports Guy

Will Nick’s speech be more than “yeah”?

DrungoHazewood
DrungoHazewood

You can always speculate that if he'd done more hard-core workouts and training in the offseason and less hunting and fishing that he'd have done better. My own take is that injuries sapped him of the

DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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26 minutes ago, Malike said:

I'm not sure if there are any hunters here, but it can be a pretty demanding full-body workout. I suspect Markakis wasn't sitting in a tree stand. I walk miles in rough terrain, good times.

Well, my Dad has a 350-lb buddy who takes his four-wheeler a grueling 3/4th of mile across flat terrain and then laboriously climbs up in the tree stand and sits motionless for four hours. I guess, minus 175 lbs, that could be Nick... :)

 

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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17 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Are there some kind of eligibility rules that make Markakis eligible but not Jones yet? Markakis last played MLB in 2020, Jones in 2019. If it's based on when they last played the Orioles, why did J.J. Hardy get in before Markakis? I don't get it.

C'mon, this the O's HOF. You get a bunch of old dudes together for lunch and make up the rules based on whatever they want.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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33 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

When debating these things, it's helpful to have a definition of which to work with.  So while I agree with you that guys like Tiger, Trout, Griffey and others haven't had the careers they were supposed to have, that doesn't mean they were underachievers.  They just got de-railed...now some of that was their own doing, some of that is just the tolls of playing their sports.  

98% of everyone doesn't end up with the career they "shoulda" had. Pete Stanicek shoulda been a 20-year major leaguer. Scott Erickson shoulda won 300 games. Luis Matos and Larry Bigbie shoulda been Kevin McReynolds and Darryl Strawberry (who shoulda been Willie Mays). Basically everyone who was ever on a BA top 100 list should have been a Hall of Famer, but life doesn't work that way. And it's mostly not the fault of the player, or really anyone.

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byrdz Hangout Veteran Council

byrdz

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32 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

Are there some kind of eligibility rules that make Markakis eligible but not Jones yet? Markakis last played MLB in 2020, Jones in 2019. If it's based on when they last played the Orioles, why did J.J. Hardy get in before Markakis? I don't get it.

Yeah, good question. 

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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38 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I have no desire to get into a semantics argument with you fools. Lol

End of the day, Tiger did not achieve what he could and should have.  I think that about Nick as well although it is different reasons for both guys.

 

You know who was a real terrible underachiever?   Yordano Ventura.   Won 38 career games, that guy had the talent to win 150 to 200.

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Moshagge3 Hangout Grand Counsel

Moshagge3

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19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Jones officially retired last year.  

He's going to be on next year's ballot for the actual Cooperstown HOF. So if they don't care when you're "officially" retired why should the Orioles? 

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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On the other hand, @Sports Guy's take isn't uncommon because Nick had a 7.4 win season at the age of 24. Following a really good season at 23, and a solid rookie season at 22 after he skipped AA. If you look hard enough in the archives here you can find a post I made in 2009 or 2010 saying Nick had about a 1-in-3 chance of being a Hall of Famer. 14 wins through three seasons and age 24 is a heck of a foundation to build on. Lots of Hall of Famers were behind that pace.

But unfortunately he never had another 3-win season, much less a seven. Age 27 peak is just an average, it's not destiny. But it's pretty rare to have Nick's first three years and then not have much more career value from age 25-36, total. Injuries or whatever reason, he was worth 14 wins from 22-24, and 20 from 25-36. And as much as I wanted him to stay, his years in Atlanta were just treading water, piling up base hits, but a cumulative value above replacement in six years about equal to his 2008 season. Nick was almost certainly not a difference-maker the large majority of his last 8-9 years in the league.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

You know who was a real terrible underachiever?   Yordano Ventura.   Won 38 career games, that guy had the talent to win 150 to 200.

You put Ventura in the 1884 Union Association and he wins 57 games just that year. Well, except being a mentally unstable member of a minority group in a less enlightened era, with what was probably a limited grasp of English, I'm thinking he gets shot in a bar the evening after opening day...

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LookinUp Hangout Grand Counsel

LookinUp

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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure, injuries are the reason he “underachieved” but it doesn’t change the idea that he did in fact, underachieve.

He did not achieve nearly what he should have.

Griffey Jr could be in that category too.

Should have? Unless you're saying everyone should reach their ceiling even if they have injuries, I don't think your word choice is correct. 

Now Nick is different than Tiger. As Drungo pointed out, he basically treaded water after a great start to his career. I can see you thinking he should have had a better career than he did. I actually think that's probably correct, though I assume it's pure speculation on why he didn't in fact have that career.

 

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Should have? Unless you're saying everyone should reach their ceiling even if they have injuries, I don't think your word choice is correct. 

Now Nick is different than Tiger. As Drungo pointed out, he basically treaded water after a great start to his career. I can see you thinking he should have had a better career than he did. I actually think that's probably correct, though I assume it's pure speculation on why he didn't in fact have that career.

 

Yea, Tiger SHOULD have. He dominated his sport unlike anyone ever has in basically any sport. He absolutely wins way more if he wasn’t a knucklehead, didn’t get hurt, etc….thats not even up for debate.

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