Hays traded to Phillies

[Uli2001]

Another reclamation project by Elias!

[LGOrioles]

28 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Still shopping in the dumpster….A project reliever and a CF with a bad bat that looks like a DFA candidate.
 

The 403 error thing sucks!

You can argue that the O’s are no worse off against LHP’s with Pache/Cowser as they were with Cowser/Hays in CF/LF, taking defense into account. Hays has been good against LHP’s this year but that’s almost entirely due to a .476 BABIP. He had a terrible K/BB rate against LHP’s with an average ISO this season and while good against LHP’s in his career (118 wRC+), Pache still has a 97 wRC+ in his career. That’s not a huge difference. Hays is MUCH better against RHP’s but he shouldn’t be taking AB’s from Cowser or Kierstad anyways, so the O’s shouldn’t really be feeling that loss. 

They got Dominguez too who immediately has the best stuff in their bullpen and has potential to be a backend guy. They still need to go get a true backend guy but it’s hard to call this dumpster diving. They got two potentially useful pieces (Dominguez more so) in exchange for arguably their 6th best OF (if you include Stowers) who was unlikely to be tendered a contract in the offseason anyways. 

[interloper]

Look it's not an exciting trade, but it's hard to ask for much more from two contenders swapping spare parts. Here are some positives:

1. We weren't going to tender Hays a contract next year to be a $7 million bench bat, so to get anything for him right now is a win. 

2. Hays is no longer clogging the roster (or the basepaths, or the payroll) as a $6 million Ryan McKenna with no speed. Addition by subtraction. No disrespect intended.

3. More room for the young OFs.

4. Dominguez will help a little I think if we use him like a RH Cionel Perez. He throws gas and is kind of like Yohan Ramirez+. Hopefully we make more RP moves, but he's a guy that we could probably coax a little more out of. 

5. Pache, for as long as he's here, is an elite defensive CF, something that Hays was not. With Mateo out, he's a guy who can pinch run late in games as well. Ultimately, the trade is not really about him though. 

Edited July 26 by interloper

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, OriolesUpAndDowns said:

I don’t really understand the purpose of Pache if he can’t be sent to AAA.  His offense is so bad it makes more sense to let our LH outfielders hit against LHP. 

He evened the salaries out.  Hays has about 2.1M left on this contract.  Dominguez has about 1.7 and Pache about 250K.

[Sports Guy]

YLove this.

Dominguez is a lot better than his ERA shows. Very solid statcast page.  Good K rate, solid walk rate.  Misses bats. Hurt by the homer this year but that likely gets better here.  He also has a relatively cheap option for next year.

 

Pache has never been the player people thought he he would be but he plays a very good CF, has a strong arm and good speed. He’s not likely to hit much but he did hit lefties well last year and he has a 333 OBP vs them this year.  He also gives you more speed off the bench, as you wait to see how long Mateo will be out for.

 

Edit: sorry if this has been said..took me 2 hours to post because of 403 error  and haven’t read the through the thread.

Edited July 26 by Sports Guy

[KojiSplit]

13 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

D

 

I would’ve rather moved Hays for some lottery tickets. Somehow our offense is worse after the trade. Didn’t Fuji have an uptick in performance before being traded?

 

Don’t think I’n attacking you as it’s me just typing and not coming at you with a harsh tone but how is the O’s offense worse with Hays off the team? We have been waiting for Elias to make more room for the likes of Kjerstad, Norby etc to get more at bats and he did just that.

On the surface yes Hays has good numbers against lefties, can’t hit righties and he didn’t hit well with RISP or late in games. IMO his offense won’t be missed.

[vab]

Will be interesting to see the all CF outfield with Cowser-Mullins-Pache in the late innings. Don't know much about Anthony but the numbers don't look too bad, need one more arm out there. 

[Orioles0615]

throws hard walks a lot. what we don't need. At least Hays is gone

[Daddy-O's]

3 minutes ago, KojiSplit said:

Don’t think I’n attacking you as it’s me just typing and not coming at you with a harsh tone but how is the O’s offense worse with Hays off the team? We have been waiting for Elias to make more room for the likes of Kjerstad, Norby etc to get more at bats and he did just that.

On the surface yes Hays has good numbers against lefties, can’t hit righties and he didn’t hit well with RISP or late in games. IMO his offense won’t be missed.

They subtracted Hayes and added Pache.  Where did they ad room for our younger players?

[Three Run Homer]

I guess the key to understanding this trade is that the O's didn't feel comfortable with Hays playing CF.  Now they have a backup outfielder who can play all three outfield positions, along with a relief pitcher with better stuff (but weaker command) than what they currently have. 

I doubt this is a precursor to trading Cedric Mullins--more like a substitute.  Ideally, Pache would never hit against RHP.    

[Roll Tide]

24 minutes ago, LockUpTheGunner said:

If the Orioles can turn Jacob Webb into a good reliever, they can certainly turn this guy into a good reliever as well.

Did it work with Fuji? Why are we trading for projects 

[Gurgi]

22 minutes ago, OriolesUpAndDowns said:

I don’t really understand the purpose of Pache if he can’t be sent to AAA.  His offense is so bad it makes more sense to let our LH outfielders hit against LHP. 

Some people have suggested that it is a pay dump by the Phillies.  We have to eat about a third of his salary.  They were close to DFAing the guy and it just sweetened the pot for the Phillies by taking him off their hands.  

The Orioles could DFA him anytime in the next two months and no one would blink.  So the Orioles taking him on was a favor to the Phillies.

[Roll Tide]

9 minutes ago, KojiSplit said:

Don’t think I’n attacking you as it’s me just typing and not coming at you with a harsh tone but how is the O’s offense worse with Hays off the team? We have been waiting for Elias to make more room for the likes of Kjerstad, Norby etc to get more at bats and he did just that.

On the surface yes Hays has good numbers against lefties, can’t hit righties and he didn’t hit well with RISP or late in games. IMO his offense won’t be missed.

How …

Hays OPS .712 …Capache .557

 

. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pachecr01.shtml

Edited July 26 by Roll Tide

[Big Mac]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Did it work with Fuji? Why are we trading for projects 

The two aren't really comparable pitchers.

https://stathead.com/tiny/MAVj3

[Just Regular]

2 hours ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Can anyone provide insight into what we received here?

Stats look like borderline DFA candidates. Not saying Hays was hugely valuable, but he was an All Star last year so I guess I would have expected something more in return? 

*sorry if any 403 lag duplication

Seranthony's 17.8 K-bb 4th of the 6th qualified Phillies relievers.    Stuff+ thinks it was the best fastball in the Phillies pen.

2023 postseason he had 6 scoreless appearances.

I trust he and Craig Kimbrel have a healthy working relationship.   Another instance like Gibson if Elias having use for an arm Dombrowski okay letting go of.

Pache can I guess do the Ryan McKenna gig.     He was the Phillies most used reserve in their 2023 postseason run.     He got 10 of the 14 PA that didn't go to the nine primary starters, as one instance how a club can settle in on their best 9 guys every day in October.      Elias seems to have thought Hays wasn't going to be one of those.

Now, will one of the Ryans be made the Mariners or Astros first baseman?     Higher chance of seeing them in the American League.