Are We a Better Team Now?

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

The thing with Mayo is I wonder how long it will take him to truly become an impact bat. If it’s 2-3 months, that’s a problem for me. I am not sure we can withstand his struggles at this point in the season. I’m not sure what to make of Jimenez either. It’s a bit of a head scratcher for sure. 

Well Jimenez has some history vs lefties. I get that but is what he has done a better bet than just going with Mayo?  And if you are the Os, are you ok with Mayo only playing vs lefties?

[Hallas]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes but I think another reliever may have been needed although we will see how Suarez is in the pen.

Also, I wish there was more room for Mayo up now. The Jimenez move really blocks that. Not a huge fan of that but I also get they don’t know where to play Mayo either. 
 

They haven’t handled him well positionally this year in the minors and now it has hurt him.

 

I honestly think Jimenez is here to keep a seat warm on the bench for Mayo when he comes up a couple weeks before the end of August so he can be available for the playoffs and still be eligible for ROY next year.  If he catches fire then maybe Mayo comes up a little later.  If he doesn't, no big loss, we can DFA him fairly safely.

 

His bat tracking data and batted ball data is pretty good, maybe the O's think they can do something with him quickly to get him to tap more of his power (his main issue is that while he hits the ball hard, he usually pounds it into the dirt.)  Either way, I don't think anyone's going to lose sleep over Trey McGough, so it's probably worth a flyer.

 

He also gives the Orioles a DH option against LHP that allowed Rutschman to catch.

Edited July 31 by Hallas

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Well Jimenez has some history vs lefties. I get that but is what he has done a better bet than just going with Mayo?  And if you are the Os, are you ok with Mayo only playing vs lefties?

Yeah, agreed. Eloy can crush LH’s, but is strictly a DH. I think they should hide his glove. Can Eloy stay healthy?

Mayo needs to keep playing everyday. His defense would be a problem at this point in a playoff run. A lot of pressure, not ideal for a 22 year old kid. 

[24fps]

3 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

I honestly think Jimenez is here to keep a seat warm on the bench for Mayo when he comes up a couple weeks before the end of August so he can be available for the playoffs and still be eligible for ROY next year.  If he catches fire then maybe Mayo comes up a little later.  If he doesn't, no big loss, we can DFA him fairly safely.

 

His bat tracking data and batted ball data is pretty good, maybe the O's think they can do something with him quickly to get him to tap more of his power.

Unless the White Sox are kicking in more money than we currently know about, the O's are on the hook for Jimenez's $3 million buyout at a minimum.  I don't think Elias spends that kind of money for a bench warmer.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

I honestly think Jimenez is here to keep a seat warm on the bench for Mayo when he comes up a couple weeks before the end of August so he can be available for the playoffs and still be eligible for ROY next year.  If he catches fire then maybe Mayo comes up a little later.  If he doesn't, no big loss, we can DFA him fairly safely.

 

His bat tracking data and batted ball data is pretty good, maybe the O's think they can do something with him quickly to get him to tap more of his power (his main issue is that while he hits the ball hard, he usually pounds it into the dirt.)  Either way, I don't think anyone's going to lose sleep over Trey McGough, so it's probably worth a flyer.

I don’t mind the trade in a vacuum. There is logic behind it. I just wish Mayo was set up to get 4-5 day a week at bats.

[Hallas]

3 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Yeah, agreed. Eloy can crush LH’s, but is strictly a DH. I think they should hide his glove. Can Eloy stay healthy?

Mayo needs to keep playing everyday. His defense would be a problem at this point in a playoff run. A lot of pressure, not ideal for a 22 year old kid. 

 

We have somewhat of a need for a RHH DH, because right now our primary options are Adley (which forces us to put McCann or Blake Hunt in the backup spot) or Santander (but we don't have any RHH options to backfill Santander in the outfield, unless Pache counts.)

Edited July 31 by Hallas

[Hallas]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t mind the trade in a vacuum. There is logic behind it. I just wish Mayo was set up to get 4-5 day a week at bats.

 

Whether we have Jimenez or not there wasn't much of a spot for Mayo to play 4-5 days a week without another veteran trade.

 

If we managed to get rid of Mountcastle or Mullins that would have changed a lot, but that didn't happen so here we are.  His only path to the majors right now is playing corner OF or DH.  Obviously Eloy takes some DH at bats that could have gone to Mayo, but I don't think getting Eloy playing time is crucial, so if he ends up being a bench bat in favor of Mayo, we're okay with that.

Edited July 31 by Hallas

[Jammer7]

6 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

We have somewhat of a need for a RHH DH, because right now our primary options are Adley (which forces us to put McCann or Blake Hunt in the backup spot) or Santander (but we don't have any RHH options to backfill Santander in the outfield, unless Pache counts.)

Agreed. He just leaves a 3 man bench. I just hope he stays healthy. Maybe being around Santander can help stimulate him. 

[bpilktree67]

I think we did as good as anyone especially in a sellers market.  I thought there was about 4 teams that could flip either way a week ago and be sellers or stand pat and that would determine how the deadline would go.  The Rangers, Giants, Cubs and Blue Jays were teams that could add a good amount of talent into the pool and when all is said and done all 4 pretty much didn’t sell any real assets away.  Toronto moved a few rentals but we clearly didn’t want those type of guys.  If one or more of those teams put guys in it could have changed deadline some imo. 

[Aristotelian]

11 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Unless the White Sox are kicking in more money than we currently know about, the O's are on the hook for Jimenez's $3 million buyout at a minimum.  I don't think Elias spends that kind of money for a bench warmer.

O's are getting cash considerations. How do we know they are on the hook for at least $3M?

 

[24fps]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

O's are getting cash considerations. How do we know they are on the hook for at least $3M?

 

Jimenez's contract includes two team options for 2025 and 2026.  It's stipulated that the team that owns the contract has to pay $3 million to decline that option.  What's unclear to me at the moment is how much cash CWS is kicking in to move Jimenez.  He's still owed salary for the remainder of the season.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Jimenez's contract includes two team options for 2025 and 2026.  It's stipulated that the team that owns the contract has to pay $3 million to decline that option.  What's unclear to me at the moment is how much cash CWS is kicking in to move Jimenez.  He's still owed salary for the remainder of the season.

Right, the cash could be enough to cover the option. It should, since Jimenez is a negative WAR guy and we already paid McGough.

[Brooks The Great]

The Hays and Eflin trades made this team much better, the Rogers and Eloy trades made the team worse today. I would have much rather kept Norby and allocated Stowers towards a bullpen arm.

There's just no way that Stowers couldn't have gotten us a solid reliever. Furthermore, there's nothing that can convince me that Elias couldn't have gotten a better return than Rogers for both Norby and Stowers. Elias made the trade with multiple hours left before the deadline. Case in point, the A's traded Erceg to the Royals for 3 crappy prospects later in the day. Not only could Stowers most likely have gotten us Erceg, but if he wasn't enough, we could have easily beaten Klein, Barnett, and Dickey with our far superior system. But Elias had already overpaid for Rogers earlier in the day. 

In aggregate, we might be better, but Elias completely failed to significantly improve the bullpen, and - especially with Hyde making decisions - it'll likely be this team's downfall in the playoffs. So even if the team is now better, it's not enough. This is the second consective season of Elias not doing enough at the deadline. 

If this Orioles team makes the World Series - and today actually hurt those chances compared to what Elias could have done - then there's a decent chance we'd face the Phillies. The Phillies just traded us 2 of their worst bullpen arms, and we're relying on them to be 2 of our best bullpen arms. That's a failure by Elias. And it's due in part to overpaying for Rogers. Again, Stowers should have been used to trade for a reliever. Norby also had value to this year's Orioles team as a LF/RF righty against lefties, and as depth if Holliday's arm flares up.

Perhaps fittingly, Elias signed the guy who single-handedly kept the Phillies out of the World Series last season and made him our closer over the offseason. The guys in the Phillies front office are certainly laughing at Elias right now.

Edited July 31 by Brooks The Great

[24fps]

27 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Right, the cash could be enough to cover the option. It should, since Jimenez is a negative WAR guy and we already paid McGough.

We'll see.  I see your point, but I kinda doubt it's a full 100% salary dump.  There is a potential benifit  to the O's to have Jimenez on the roster for the rest of 2024 - enough to where it's unreasonable to expect the White Sox to insure the entire downside.

[terpoh]

1 minute ago, Brooks The Great said:

The Hays and Eflin trades made this team much better, the Rogers and Eloy trades made the team worse today. I would have much rather kept Norby and allocated Stowers towards a bullpen arm.

There's just no way that Stowers couldn't have gotten us a solid reliever. Furthermore, there's nothing that can convince me that Elias couldn't have gotten a better return than Rogers for both Norby and Stowers. Elias made the trade with multiple hours left before the deadline. Case in point, the A's traded Erceg to the Royals for 3 crappy prospects later in the day. Not only could Stowers most likely have gotten us Erceg, but if he wasn't enough, we could have easily beaten Klein, Barnett, and Dickey with our far superior system. But Elias had already overpaid for Rogers earlier in the day. 

In aggregate, we might be better, but Elias completely failed to significantly imrove the bullpen, and - especially with Hyde making decisions - it'll likely be this team's downfall in the playoffs. So even if the team is now better, it's not enough. This is the second consective season of Elias not doing enough at the deadline. 

If this Orioles team makes the World Series - and today actually hurt those chances compared to what Elias could have done - then there's a decent chance we'd face the Phillies. The Phillies just traded us 2 of their worst bullpen arms, and we're relying on them to be 2 of our best bullpen arms. That's a failure by Elias. And it's due in part to overpaying for Rogers. Again, Stowers should have been used to trade for a reliever. Norby also had value to this year's Orioles team as a LF/RF righty against lefties, and as depth if Holliday's arm flares up.

Perhaps fittingly, Elias signed the guy who single-handedly kept the Phillies out of the World Series last season and made him our closer over the offseason. The guys in the Phillies front office are certainly laughing at Elias right now.

Philly is laughing at the o’s as Dominguez closes out a win with a perfect 9th and they Phillies bullpen blows a three run lead and can’t win in extras?

the negativity of some on this board after today astounds me. This roster is without question improved from the trade deadline . Especially the pitching. Our rotation is night and day where it was 5 days ago, and our pen is much improved as well. You are vastly overrating Connor Norby and Kyle Stowers value, both to the Orioles and to other teams in a trade. I don’t think Mike Elias didn’t shop them around for multiple options. We “hurt out chances” of going to the World Series is just a comical statement.