Jump to content

This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy


RZNJ

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I guess my question is whether this is indicative of an issue with development — or just another way of saying they don’t draft pitchers.

From 2019-2022, they drafted 3 pitchers in the top 5 rounds, and all of them were 5th rounders (Baumler, Tavera, Bright). They’ve taken another 5 pitchers during that span from rounds 6-10. 

What’s the league-wide success rate on pitching picks in that range? Is it demonstrably poor draft/development performance to have only gotten one fringy ML reliever (Gillispie) from 8 picks between rounds 5 and 10 by now?

Or is it moreso just an issue of taking so few pitchers? I don’t know the answer to this, just posing the question I think has to be answered to refine the concern.

Curiously, two young pitchers having breakout 2nd halves for the Astros, Hunter Brown and Spencer Arrighetti, were picked in the 5th and 6th rounds but each throws mid 90’s.  Not sure what their  velocity was when drafted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the SSS success of these two pitchers means anything when trying to evaluate the O's pitching development. Bradish was a 4th rounder whose development was predominately by the O's. Here is a guy from this year that the O's picked up and have done a seemingly good job of developing. Left-hander Tucker Davidson, an offseason waiver claim from the Royals, struck out eight in seven innings of two-run ball Wednesday against Jacksonville to continue a very good season in the Norfolk rotation. He has a 3.61 ERA, a 1.27 WHIP, and 94 strikeouts in 99 2/3 innings.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

This wasn't really intended as why did we give these guys up.  More like why didn't we get them to perform like this?

You have to give something to get something.  No problem. 

Also, it’s not like Baumeister and Chace were doing poorly with us.  They were doing pretty well, just not as well as they’ve done since they were traded.   It’s not like we didn’t know they were talented.  

I wonder if Tampa fans are wringing their hands over the fact that Eflin has a 1.95 ERA as an Oriole, or if Philly fans are bothered that Soto is now on a streak of 9 straight scoreless outings.   
 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

To me the best part is that Elias admits they don't have evidence that their approach reduces injury.

Well we know so far this approach hasn't developed major league pitching and pitchers still are on the IL all over the org.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Ripken said:

SSS for sure but the O's lack of pitcher development is still really frustrating.  I have never agreed with the lack of pitcher drafting, lower pitch counts, refusal to transition some prospects to the pen or the obsession with making a guy try to master 6 different pitches.  Other orgs (certainly TB) appear to be much better at those things.  

What does SSS mean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, EdwinRip said:

You would think this team is dead last in baseball when reading this thread.

I just realized that I have been on here A LOT less in the past month or so.  It has been too over the top.  Fire this, fire that, players suck, development sucks, GM sucks, manager sucks.. Heck, even the broadcasters suck.  Oh and don't forget that Roy Firestone sucks because he likes a kid that he has gotten to know.  The life gets sucked out of you.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well we know so far this approach hasn't developed major league pitching and pitchers still are on the IL all over the org.

We developed Bradish, Grayson, DL Hall, Wells, and Bautista under Elias. Kremer was at least partially under Elias. I agree, we've had our share of injuries, although more so this year than up until now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@spiritof66makes an excellent point, that drafting position players to trade for pitching isn’t very useful when you end up also trading the few pitching prospects you have.

I have said constantly that dumpster diving is valuable, but it’s also impossible to succeed when you don’t do anything else.

I don’t care where they get pitching, although I would prefer they not sign aging and declining free agents and hope they will return to glory.

If your position player prospects are not adequate to get the pitching you need, then it’s not a workable strategy.

I have also always detested “one size fits all” approach to coaching, but I don’t know that’s what they are doing.

It certainly remains to be seen whether the guys we have lost will turn into something meaningful, but they apparently have turned in to something better, and that warrants scrutiny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

Speaking of Stowers - he is heating up for Miami over the last 7 games.   Good for him. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/kyle-stowers-hits-3-run-home-run-marlins-win-series-giants

There was no spot for Stowers here.  I hope he's able to make the most of his shot in Miami.  He had a rough start, but things seem to be looking up for him there.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

@spiritof66makes an excellent point, that drafting position players to trade for pitching isn’t very useful when you end up also trading the few pitching prospects you have.

I have said constantly that dumpster diving is valuable, but it’s also impossible to succeed when you don’t do anything else.

I don’t care where they get pitching, although I would prefer they not sign aging and declining free agents and hope they will return to glory.

If your position player prospects are not adequate to get the pitching you need, then it’s not a workable strategy.

I have also always detested “one size fits all” approach to coaching, but I don’t know that’s what they are doing.

It certainly remains to be seen whether the guys we have lost will turn into something meaningful, but they apparently have turned in to something better, and that warrants scrutiny.

Yes this management has run this team right into the ground.  

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Osornot said:

I just realized that I have been on here A LOT less in the past month or so.  It has been too over the top.  Fire this, fire that, players suck, development sucks, GM sucks, manager sucks.. Heck, even the broadcasters suck.  Oh and don't forget that Roy Firestone sucks because he likes a kid that he has gotten to know.  The life gets sucked out of you.

Ummmm the broadcasters DO suck…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
    • Not bad, but Mullins needs to be at Centerfield for his range, glove, and defensive ability. Top teir premium defense cannot be underestimated. Kjerstad will be on the bench. I think the question is whether Slater or Cowser plays. I would prefer Ramirez over Slater if they need another right handed bat. Sig needs to look at Adleys recent sample sizes vs LHP before making him DH. McCann is catching for Burnes and hitting the left handed pitcher. He's also on a hot streak.
    • I’m slightly (irrationally, I admit, there’s no factual basis for what I’m about to say) worried that Gunnar is going to view this as the “Gunnar vs. Bobby” show and press hard at the plate and in the field leading to bad at bats and unforced errors. 
    • Sounds like getting your heart broken by big league ballplayers is a personal problem. Learn and adjust accordingly. These guys usually aren’t trying to be role models and he played in an era where a lot of players were on the gas. Was I surprised? Yeah, a little bit.  No one likes to admit Jose Canseco was the most honest one up there that day and was telling the truth the entire time.    
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...