After Two Weeks of Pie...

[Moose Milligan]

This whole Pie thing has gotten completely out of control.

[larrytt]

Dan Thomas at the age of 25 won the Eastern League Triple Crown in 1976, his 2nd full year at AA ball.... now you say who?

Eastern League History

Dan Thomas minor league stats.

You had to go back to 1976 to find the last triple crown winner in the Eastern League, as an example of someone who didn't make the majors? Dan Thomas's example is meaningless because after his triple crown season in 1976, he stopped playing full-time (probably due to injuries), getting only 131 AB in 1977 and 170 in 1978 (both in the minors), then apparently retiring, and then dying in 1980!!! I agree that if Montanez only plays part-time in the minors the next two years and then dies, he's not a good prospect.

-Larrytt

[Moose Milligan]

I just hope all the Pie bashers are consistent. If Reimold comes up, struggles at the plate, and has some mental errors in left, I really hope you guys only give him 13 days before you pass judgment on him.

No chance in hell this happens.

Last year Adam Jones got a free pass. We remained patient as he flailed at pitches out of the zone and showed practically no plate discipline.

A year later with Felix Pie? Who knows why people can't afford to give the same bit of patience.

All I know is that it seems like there are a lot of people who want to see Pie fail so they can beat their chests and say they were right and how smart they were. They'd never come out and say they're rooting for that to happen, but that sure is the attitude that comes across.

[Flosman]

You had to go back to 1976 to find the last triple crown winner in the Eastern League, as an example of someone who didn't make the majors? Dan Thomas's example is meaningless because after his triple crown season in 1976, he stopped playing full-time (probably due to injuries), getting only 131 AB in 1977 and 170 in 1978 (both in the minors), then apparently retiring, and then dying in 1980!!! I agree that if Montanez only plays part-time in the minors the next two years and then dies, he's not a good prospect.

-Larrytt

Death does tend to reduce a players value.

[larrytt]

We all want Luis Montanez to be a great player but chances are that's as good as he'll ever be. Translate those spectacular numbers into a major league context and he's an average MLB left fielder.

He is Jon Knott. Knott put up five times as many .900 OPSes as Montanez in the minors. Or JR House. Guys who could play a role on a good team. Guys who could play 140 games in left or DH for a team with a big hole. But not major league stars. Not even average regulars.

I loved Jon Knott, and thought he got a raw deal. But you just don't discard five tool guys with good minor league resumes at 24 for Jon Knott.

Possibly. But two points: 1) I jumped into this discussion when it was claimed that Montanez would never be more than a 4th outfielder, which is considerably worse than an "average" LF; and 2) If being the best at AA projects to "average" LF, then what projects to above average? (What is better than "best"?) I think you see my point; all we can do is take the best hitters from each level and see which ones make it at the major league level. On average - and "on average" is the key point - the best hitters at the minor league level will do best. Othewise, we might as well just pick prospects randomly.

-Larrytt

[Fan4Life]

Have you ever heard the term "a wash?" They do happen in professional sports...

God, you really don't get it. I don't know how much more simply to put it. You don't just throw away something with potential because you got it for nothing. It is just not a smart thing to do. I'm trying to pick my words carefully here, but I'm not sure what else to say that won't sound demeaning.

Pie may or may not make it, but the fact that we traded Olson for him is completely irrelevant to the conversation. It just is.

Don't you see how many ifs you've got in that sentence. That is the whole point. We don't know anything for sure. Reimold could come up here and pull a Brandon Wood. Or he might just rock. We don't know. But if Reimold does pull a Brandon Wood and Pie gets grabbed by say the Nationals (and he would be claimed, make no mistake) and figures it out, we're going to have lost a ton. We owe it to ourselves to be as sure as we can be and 13 games isn't enough to know anything. That is the whole point.

This is such a straw man you've created. None of us are pointing to 2007 as the lone data point for Pie. Only you're doing that. I see many other data points that tell me that he has a shot.

Now, I'm not a huge fan of Pie as I think you may recall from the potential Roberts trade last offseason. I don't think he compares well with AJ due to the issues with lefties in the minors. However, I'm not even close to calling him a lost cause.

You get an "A" for persistence. Why you continue is beyond me. JTrea only posts like this for attention. You can't win the argument, you can only feed the need....

[Sanfran327]

No chance in hell this happens.

Last year Adam Jones got a free pass. We remained patient as he flailed at pitches out of the zone and showed practically no plate discipline.

A year later with Felix Pie? Who knows why people can't afford to give the same bit of patience.

All I know is that it seems like there are a lot of people who want to see Pie fail so they can beat their chests and say they were right and how smart they were. They'd never come out and say they're rooting for that to happen, but that sure is the attitude that comes across.

If we traded Bedard to get Pie, I bet people would keep quiet thus far...

[The Rick]

No chance in hell this happens.

Last year Adam Jones got a free pass. We remained patient as he flailed at pitches out of the zone and showed practically no plate discipline.

A year later with Felix Pie? Who knows why people can't afford to give the same bit of patience.

All I know is that it seems like there are a lot of people who want to see Pie fail so they can beat their chests and say they were right and how smart they were. They'd never come out and say they're rooting for that to happen, but that sure is the attitude that comes across.

Well, here's a few ideas:

1. Jones was the extent of our CF depth in our whole system
2. We gave up Bedard, so everyone was high on Jones from day 1
3. Pie has struggled defensively as well, which makes it even more difficult to stomach

I don't agree with them, but I think that's why people have flip flopped from being patient with Jones, and haunting Pie each and every at bat.

BTW, I agree with your post. I just can't believe this is such a huge deal for some people on a losing ball club.

[Fan4Life]

Who did that? I don't recall anyone saying that Montanez is conclusively never going to be more than a 4th outfielder. I recall several projecting that as his most likely path.

I feel for Lou. He deserves an everyday shot to prove what we've seen for over 2 years is legitimate. But we don't have room to allow him to do that.

[Old#5fan]

Pie is a defensive liablity, if he can't hit and he can't field, then he has no place on this team...

Yeah, and I am sick and tired of hearing..... but his minor league numbers at age 21 were so much better than so and so, and blah, blah, BLAH which means absolutely zilch when it comes to how badly he looks at the major league level. He is totally overmatched offensively and defensively and doesn't belong in a major league uniform much less to be carried for two months! There are far better players they never gave that much of an opportunity and one of them was Jack Cust!

[Fan4Life]

Well, here's a few ideas:

1. Jones was the extent of our CF depth in our whole system
2. We gave up Bedard, so everyone was high on Jones from day 1
3. Pie has struggled defensively as well, which makes it even more difficult to stomach

I don't agree with them, but I think that's why people have flip flopped from being patient with Jones, and haunting Pie each and every at bat.

BTW, I agree with your post. I just can't believe this is such a huge deal for some people on a losing ball club.

We'll be lucky to win 78 games and land in 4th place. In that sense we can let Pie play LF though July and not suffer at all.

[Murray#1]

You had to go back to 1976 to find the last triple crown winner in the Eastern League, as an example of someone who didn't make the majors? Dan Thomas's example is meaningless because after his triple crown season in 1976, he stopped playing full-time (probably due to injuries), getting only 131 AB in 1977 and 170 in 1978 (both in the minors), then apparently retiring, and then dying in 1980!!! I agree that if Montanez only plays part-time in the minors the next two years and then dies, he's not a good prospect.

-Larrytt

Does the Carolina League Triple Crown count for anything? Leo Daigle won that just a few years ago and he couldn't even succeed in AA. Being old for the league and repeating the level makes a monster difference as far as prospect status goes.

Just for the record though, I would like to state that I'd like Montanez to be on the roster instead of Freel. Then we could see if he really has turned some sort of corner and forces his way into the starting gig.

[Guest Sailor Jerry]

People are reallllllly judging Pie a failure after two weeks of regular playing time in Baltimore? If I'm in charge, I'm trotting him out there every day and not even looking at his numbers until after Memorial Day. He may or may not pan out, but it's insane to try to judge him right now. Having Reimold is a luxury right now -- one that's going to push Pie and may eventually push him out. But the idea that the Orioles just discard Pie now and go with Reimold is silly.

[Old#5fan]

People are reallllllly judging Pie a failure after two weeks of regular playing time in Baltimore? If I'm in charge, I'm trotting him out there every day and not even looking at his numbers until after Memorial Day. He may or may not pan out, but it's insane to try to judge him right now. Having Reimold is a luxury right now -- one that's going to push Pie and may eventually push him out. But the idea that the Orioles just discard Pie now and go with Reimold is silly.

It isn't silly it is exactly the same thing a pretty smart baseball manager named Lou Pinella did and that was to discard the bad Pie, who happens to be giving a lot of us heartburn in watching him try to impersonate a major leaguer with talent.

[ccbird]

Well, here's a few ideas:

1. Jones was the extent of our CF depth in our whole system
2. We gave up Bedard, so everyone was high on Jones from day 1
3. Pie has struggled defensively as well, which makes it even more difficult to stomach

I don't agree with them, but I think that's why people have flip flopped from being patient with Jones, and haunting Pie each and every at bat.

BTW, I agree with your post. I just can't believe this is such a huge deal for some people on a losing ball club.

Because some people feel we have better options that not only make us better now but also in the future. That wasn't the case with Jones last year. To be fair to all the critics and people who are jumping on Pie if every other team in MLB had a Montenez and Reimold, guys tearing it up in AAA who played the same position as a guy in Pie's position, they would calling for his head too. It's just human nature, even this early in the season whether it's a team expected to contend or not.