After Two Weeks of Pie...

[Dipper9]

You keep Montanez and let Freel go. Montanez can be an extra OF/platoon LF. Even if Reimold hits you send him back down and that's from someone who's been in Reimold's corner all of the way and has been consistently saying that he could be an impact hitter in the majors. The key here is to give Pie a real chance to prove if he's a scrub or a possible impact hitter himself. You can't do that by having him on the bench or releasing him. I'd move Luke Scott first (to create a spot for Reimold) before I'd sit or release Pie. I give Pie until the end of June.

So, just to be clear, you'd trade a guy who will give you around 20 bombs, is a solid rbi and decent average guy, has a decent if unspectacular glove, and a great teammate, in favor of hanging onto a guy who may or may not be a future part of any major league team?

[Dipper9]

I wish I was this smart. I can't tell for sure that Pie will definitely bust or that Reimold will definitely make it. I'd put the odds at about 30% for Pie and 50% for Reimold, but I don't pretend that these odds are even particularly realistic, just my SWAG at it. Kudos for being so advanced. Do ML teams know you're out here and available for service?

There is no need to be so condensending about this poster's opinion. Just because some of us don't like what we see with Pie doesn't mean we are trying to be know it alls...like the people who blast us for our opinion!

Just to be clear. My first choice was to send Reimold down even if he hit well, and give Pie until the end of June. If the choice is between Pie and Scott, I'd keep Pie and give him until the end of June. If that meant I had to deal Scott to give Pie that chance, then yes, I'd do it. Pie might be a great guy and teammate as well. I believe Pie will turn out to be a better player than Scott. I could be wrong but if I have to lose Scott to find out, I'm willing to go down that road.

Fair enough. We are on opposite sides on this one, which is what makes the OH so much fun. If we all agree all the time, there would be no point ever posting. Time will tell on Pie. I hope I am wrong about him. But I don't think I am! (not that I am a scout or anything...vatech! )

[ChaosLex]

This is the thread that keeps on givin'. :laughlol:

[Mackus]

Another gem. If only you were trying to be funny.

Everybody knows LF with power and speed are even easier to find than average 1B. You can tell an average 1B by his line of a .300 BA, 30+ HR, and 100+ RBI every year.

[Frobby]

Just to be clear. My first choice was to send Reimold down even if he hit well, and give Pie until the end of June. If the choice is between Pie and Scott, I'd keep Pie and give him until the end of June. If that meant I had to deal Scott to give Pie that chance, then yes, I'd do it. Pie might be a great guy and teammate as well. I believe Pie will turn out to be a better player than Scott. I could be wrong but if I have to lose Scott to find out, I'm willing to go down that road.

I am glad we do not need to make that choice. At this point I am not at all sure Pie will ever be as good as Scott. I haven't ruled it out, but he hasn't shown a lot so far. It would be the proverbial case of giving away the bird in the hand to go after the two in the bush.

[Frobby]

Maybe I'm nuts but I see a lot of promise. A lot more than I originally saw in ST. He has a lot more power potential than I originally thought. By September I think we will look back at the Olson/Pie trade as a major heist.

I have not seen enough of Pie yet to have an opinion. He's had 34 plate appearances, and I've probably seen only half of those. I've seen him look really terrible a few times, but that isn't surprising. Jones looked really terrible at times last year, and in fact, sometimes he still does. The key, for Pie, is to be gradually improving the ratio of good at bats to really bad at bats.

His power potential is the least of my concerns, for now. Strike out rate, and the number of times he makes hard contact, are the issues. 11 K's in 34 PAs is too high. When he's hit the ball, he has made pretty decent contact (22.7% LD) and my sense is he has been a little unlucky to this point.

In any event, he should keep playing and we will see how much he improves.

[Flosman]

Maybe I'm nuts but I see a lot of promise. A lot more than I originally saw in ST. He has a lot more power potential than I originally thought. By September I think we will look back at the Olson/Pie trade as a major heist.

I am seeing the same thing. Pie has been known has a guy with no patience or discipline at the plate and I see him trying to work the count. I see him laying off of pitches I expect him to hack at. He is still in love with a letter high FB which he can't get to, but I think there has been progress. He needs to learn how to hit with two strikes but I am sure Crowley is working on that.

[Satyr3206]

Been offline for a few days because the new house I bought had to have the fiber optic cable trenched in.

Now it's time to jump back into the fire.

I've said since the end of ST that Pie didn't earn the job and seems to be regressing. The last 3 weeks just confirms it. He doesn't know the strike zone well enough, his swing is too long, and his defense is terrible. When the trade was made I was hopeful. Now it looks like it was a nothing trade for both teams.

I still think Pie is a AAAA player and he's taking someone elses spot. It's just a matter of when he plays himself out of the lineup now.

[Moose Milligan]

A post from late last june:

The entire thread. Required reading for everyone, especially the Pie bashers.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65915

Ahhh, good call. I remember this thread.

[Dipper9]

A post from late last june:

The entire thread. Required reading for everyone, especially the Pie bashers.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65915

Why do people keep comparing Pie to Jones and Markakis? He is not in their league. Its just as easy to compare Pie to Patterson or Hammonds. What one did or does has no influence on the other. Lets rate Pie for what Pie does, not for what Nick or Adam did in their first year. And another thing, this isn't Pie's first season!

[Mackus]

Why do people keep comparing Pie to Jones and Markakis? He is not in their league. Its just as easy to compare Pie to Patterson or Hammonds. What one did or does has no influence on the other. Lets rate Pie for what Pie does, not for what Nick or Adam did in their first year. And another thing, this isn't Pie's first season!

Last year wasn't Jones' first season either.

Historical comparisons are there so that people can put into context what a current player is doing. Obviously the previous guy has no bearing on what the current guy is gonna do, but it gives you a pretty decent idea of what you can reasonably expect.

[Moose Milligan]

Why do people keep comparing Pie to Jones and Markakis? He is not in their league. Its just as easy to compare Pie to Patterson or Hammonds. What one did or does has no influence on the other. Lets rate Pie for what Pie does, not for what Nick or Adam did in their first year. And another thing, this isn't Pie's first season!

Pie's had limited at bats across two seasons. I don't know why the Pie bashers like to make believe that he's a 3rd year vet.

While you're right on judging what Pie does and what Pie does alone, its worthy to note that Markakis and Jones had their struggles early on as well. It's a double standard to be patient with Markakis and Jones and want to give up on Pie after 3 weeks.

You gonna want to give up on Reimold if he struggles when he gets up here, too?

[ChrisAF79]

Why do people keep comparing Pie to Jones and Markakis? He is not in their league. Its just as easy to compare Pie to Patterson or Hammonds. What one did or does has no influence on the other. Lets rate Pie for what Pie does, not for what Nick or Adam did in their first year. And another thing, this isn't Pie's first season!

Bringing up these old threads is simply to show how irrational people can be at times.

By the way, last year wasn't Jones' first season either. I think it's a very applicable comp.

[Dipper9]

Pie's had limited at bats across two seasons. I don't know why the Pie bashers like to make believe that he's a 3rd year vet.

While you're right on judging what Pie does and what Pie does alone, its worthy to note that Markakis and Jones had their struggles early on as well. It's a double standard to be patient with Markakis and Jones and want to give up on Pie after 3 weeks.

You gonna want to give up on Reimold if he struggles when he gets up here, too?

Kakes EARNED his way onto the team with an unbelievable spring that year. So yes, he deserved some rope. Jones was the centerpiece of a deal that sent our ace to Seattle, so he also deserved some rope. Neither of them had anybody knocking on the door to take their playing time. Pie is a "hunch" that MacPhail is hoping pays off. He is a five-tool "prospect" whose own team gave up on him. Yeah, I know the reason, the Cubs don't have a spot for him on their pennant contending team. The bottom line is if they truly think he was gonna develop they would not have given up on him. And finally, Pie is getting PT even though he has not earned it and has Scott, Wigginton, Montanez, and Reimold who ALL can play left field. These are the main differences between Pie and Kakes/Jones.

[Dipper9]

What does it mean, that Pie is not in Jones's league? You mean right now? Well, even Pie supporters aren't that blind. Funny, but going into last season, I think many baseball people felt that Jones and Pie were in the same league. Jones was considered better by most but not by a wide margin. That you have determined that the current Jones and the current Pie are not in the same league is quite analytically admirable. I do think that the talent level of each player IS in the same league. Whether Pie progresses or not is yet to be seen. Those who think we should be patient may look wrong later on. Those who have given up will most likely look foolish and have this thread reposted at a later date.

In which case I will happily admit I was wrong. But, see my post above for my reasons for not putting Pie in the same category as Kakes and Jones.