MacPhail cites Tex offer as proof the Orioles will spend money

[Austin]

Tex was going where the money was...plain and simple..Anyone who believes differently is fooling themselves.

Didn't Washington offer more than the Yankees? Or am I misremembering?

[Frobby]

It's a little hard to assess the Tex negotiations without knowing more than we know. I guess we know the O's made an opening offer of 7/$140 mm. To me, that was a very legitimate starting point, and even if someone else made a higher opening offer, I wouldn't say the O's had a bad opener or that they weren't ready to spend some serious money.

The real issue is what happened after that. It's unclear whether Boras ever countered the O's offer, or whether Tex really had any serious interest in going to the O's. Would the O's have upped their offer? Should they have done so unilaterally after reading that other teams had bested their initial offer, or was it appropriate for them to wait for Boras to call and tell them what's what? Did Boras do that? What response did they give? I think you'd need to know the answer to all these questions to know if the O's handled this well.

In the end, 8/$180 mm was too much for the O's to pay Tex. I don't think he would have chosen Baltimore over NY even if we'd matched the offer, and it's not clear whether we were given that opportunity.

[Sports Guy]

I agree with that, and while I would have been comfortable making a bigger offer than the Yanks did, I understand why MacPhail was not his logic is certainly reasonable.

I also don't think its a waste of time to meet with him and try and sell him on the idea of coming home and being a hero to this city. It was a very long shot, but its not like we missed out on anything else because we were chasing after Tex. If Andy thought that 8/$160M or so was the highest he could risk for Tex given the realities of the rest of the organization, and he knew that it was less than others would go, selling him on the idea of being a hero and coming home to take the discount was his only real option for getting the job done.

I don't think the actual offer he made was the highest he would have been willing to go. But if you never hear a counter from Tex/Boras, there isn't a ton you can do. He made it known that was just an opening offer and he was willing to go higher, but obviously Tex just wasn't interested in taking less than top dollar, which Andy just felt he couldn't match and remain responsible.

AM read the reports...He knows what is going on...Even if Boras didn't come back to them, he could have picked up the phone and upped the offer...He could have been the aggressor and improved that offer.

I just don't buy any of this bs...He handled the negotiations poorly IMO...The Orioles may have never had a real shot at getting Tex but he did state that he wanted to come here, the Orioles did state they wanted him and AM threw an offer on the table that, in retrospect, was a joke of an offer compared to what everyone else was offering.

[Moose Milligan]

It's a little hard to assess the Tex negotiations without knowing more than we know. I guess we know the O's made an opening offer of 7/$140 mm. To me, that was a very legitimate starting point, and even if someone else made a higher opening offer, I wouldn't say the O's had a bad opener or that they weren't ready to spend some serious money.

The real issue is what happened after that. It's unclear whether Boras ever countered the O's offer, or whether Tex really had any serious interest in going to the O's. Would the O's have upped their offer? Should they have done so unilaterally after reading that other teams had bested their initial offer, or was it appropriate for them to wait for Boras to call and tell them what's what? Did Boras do that? What response did they give? I think you'd need to know the answer to all these questions to know if the O's handled this well.

In the end, 8/$180 mm was too much for the O's to pay Tex. I don't think he would have chosen Baltimore over NY even if we'd matched the offer, and it's not clear whether we were given that opportunity.

Oh come on Frobby, this is the OH.

If we don't know everything, we sure as hell act like we do.

[Mackus]

AM read the reports...He knows what is going on...Even if Boras didn't come back to them, he could have picked up the phone and upped the offer...He could have been the aggressor and improved that offer.

I just don't buy any of this bs...He handled the negotiations poorly IMO...The Orioles may have never had a real shot at getting Tex but he did state that he wanted to come here, the Orioles did state they wanted him and AM threw an offer on the table that, in retrospect, was a joke of an offer compared to what everyone else was offering.

Upping the offer to something smaller than what was offered accomplishes nothing.

MacPhail likely felt the Orioles couldn't realistically give him that 8/$180M deal. So the only option is to hope he takes less money. What should he have done? Just never made an offer? Offering less and trying to sell him on coming home was the only option if you believe that the team can't afford to risk giving that much to one guy. Personally, I would have gone much higher than MacPhail was likely comfortable with, but given the constraints MacPhail apparently felt to remain responsible, his negotiation tactics were spot on. There just wasn't a chance Tex would ever take less to go anywhere, and that ultimately is why he's not an Oriole.

I have no problems with the argument that MacPhail should have been willing to spend more.

[carolinaoriole]

The Orioles offer was the only offer that was logical.

Those silly yankees overpaid for that guy.

Thank god we have A.M.

[Sports Guy]

I am going to try to spin this thread away from this Tex stuff as that has been re-hashed enough...No one is going to change anyone's mind so its pointless to keep it up.

Do you guys think AM could be talking about this because perhaps he will make a run at Lackey?

There are some hints out there that Lackey could be a guy he goes after, particularly if Lackey doesn't get as much as some think.

[Sports Guy]

Upping the offer to something smaller than what was offered accomplishes nothing.

MacPhail likely felt the Orioles couldn't realistically give him that 8/$180M deal. So the only option is to hope he takes less money. What should he have done? Just never made an offer? Offering less and trying to sell him on coming home was the only option if you believe that the team can't afford to risk giving that much to one guy. Personally, I would have gone much higher than MacPhail was likely comfortable with, but given the constraints MacPhail apparently felt to remain re, his negotiation tactics were spot on.

I have no problems with the argument that MacPhail should have been willing to spend more.

The 8/180 offers came near the end...The Orioles could have easily called up and matched the Angels and Nats 8/160 offers and then gone from there.

To sit there and keep saying its just a starting offer and we can offer more but never move off of that number is absurd.

7/140 was a genuine but also token offer IMO.

AM can sit there and say we offered him, by far, the largest deal in franchise history and put 140 million dollars in front of him and he said no...Most fans will be ok with that and call Tex greedy and a sell out and AM likely knows that.

[Mackus]

The 8/180 offers came near the end...The Orioles could have easily called up and matched the Angels and Nats 8/160 offers and then gone from there.

To sit there and keep saying its just a starting offer and we can offer more but never move off of that number is absurd.

Its not absurd if you tell them we're willing to go higher and get back to us. Them not asking for more money from us is pretty telling.

[Lucky Jim]

I am going to try to spin this thread away from this Tex stuff as that has been re-hashed enough...No one is going to change anyone's mind so its pointless to keep it up.

Do you guys think AM could be talking about this because perhaps he will make a run at Lackey?

There are some hints out there that Lackey could be a guy he goes after, particularly if Lackey doesn't get as much as some think.

The 8/180 offers came near the end...The Orioles could have easily called up and matched the Angels and Nats 8/160 offers and then gone from there.

To sit there and keep saying its just a starting offer and we can offer more but never move off of that number is absurd.

Well done.

Seriously, though - on your first point, I don't read too much into AM's language. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to see us make a run. I think when AM identifies something that "works" within his framework, then he's going to move hard.

The real issue comes - at this juncture, rather than as we get better - with the fact that I can't see AM overpaying to convince someone to come to Baltimore. It's just not the way he thinks. He identifies value, he pays it. If he has to pay a Charm City Premium, I don't see us signing the guy.

The exception to this is guys who pose different risks/are undervalued. There the premium may be small - and the payoff still huge, as with injured pitchers. We've seen the O's pursue this in the draft. Wonder if they'll think about it in the FA market.

[carolinaoriole]

Tex was going where the money was...plain and simple..Anyone who believes differently is fooling themselves.

And that is the reason that I am happy that he did not come to Baltimore.

Tex was afraid of being the big fish.

He went to new york so that he would never have to be.

He could have been as big as Cal.

Instead he chose to be Bernie Williams.

[Dipper9]

I am going to try to spin this thread away from this Tex stuff as that has been re-hashed enough...No one is going to change anyone's mind so its pointless to keep it up.

Do you guys think AM could be talking about this because perhaps he will make a run at Lackey?

There are some hints out there that Lackey could be a guy he goes after, particularly if Lackey doesn't get as much as some think.

Its a possibility, but he also stressed that you only make runs of that significant money on players that have little question marks surrounding them. Does a pitcher qualify under those circumstances? Not sure. What I think could be more likely is us trading for a bad contract and eating the salary of someone who MacPhail does trust to be worth the cash.

[Sports Guy]

Its not absurd if you tell them we're willing to go higher and get back to us. Them not asking for more money from us is pretty telling.

But where is it telling...That Tex didn't want to come here(which means you think he was a liar all those years) or that Boras never believed that the Orioles would compete with that offer?

I think the idea of Noras knowing the Orioles wouldn't compete with the offer is more likely...had the offer stayed in that 150-165 range, I think he comes back to us.

We have no idea what AM said..Maybe he told them they have a threshold and that the Red Sox and Yanks were over it.

[Dipper9]

Its not absurd if you tell them we're willing to go higher and get back to us. Them not asking for more money from us is pretty telling.

Bingo! Boras has NO idea how high AM and Angelos were willing to go. Boras job is to get as much for his client as possible. What possible motivation would he have for NOT calling MacPhail, the GM of Tex's hometown team, and trying to see what their next offer would be? The ONLY possible reason for Boras not calling to up the ante was because Tex told him that Baltimore was not on his list of teams, and maybe, possibly, Tex respects US Baltimore fans enough to not try to get our hopes up any more than they already were.

SG, maybe I'm missing something. Can you think of any reason Boras would not come back to MacPhail for a higher offer?

[Mackus]

But where is it telling...That Tex didn't want to come here(which means you think he was a liar all those years) or that Boras never believed that the Orioles would compete with that offer?

I think the idea of Noras knowing the Orioles wouldn't compete with the offer is more likely...had the offer stayed in that 150-165 range, I think he comes back to us.

We have no idea what AM said..Maybe he told them they have a threshold and that the Red Sox and Yanks were over it.

Boras would never not counter just because he doesn't think a team will agree, that's not his style. He'll always try and get more people involved just to up the ante for other teams.

There is no rational reason for Boras not to counter just because he doesn't think we'd go that high. There is also no rational reason for MacPhail to make an opening offer and then tell Boras what the max he'd be willing to go is right after that.

Bottom line is Tex got offers that were more than the Orioles were willing to pay. I disagreed with the thinking that he wasn't worth going higher (although the Yanks likely would have ultimately gone higher than I was willing to go), but I don't think MacPhail should have been upping his offer without being asked to or given any indication that Tex would consider Baltimore.