MacPhail cites Tex offer as proof the Orioles will spend money

[JTrea81]

It's really a weak defense by MacPhail.

I'll go with Lackey for example.

If MacPhail offers 5/75 and other teams offer 5/85-90, does that mean the 5/75 is an acceptable offer compared to the others?

Sure he can say he offered $140 million for Tex, but when that offer is 20 million below one you already know is out there, what's the point of making that offer, especially to a Boras client?

If we are going to offer big money, then we have to make sure we have the highest offer on the table. Bottom line. Otherwise it's just another token offer to make it seem like we are willing to spend money yet the player doesn't want to come here.

[Sports Guy]

Its a possibility, but he also stressed that you only make runs of that significant money on players that have little question marks surrounding them. Does a pitcher qualify under those circumstances? Not sure. What I think could be more likely is us trading for a bad contract and eating the salary of someone who MacPhail does trust to be worth the cash.

Yea, I am not sure....He hates long term deals for pitchers...and he is 100% right about that.

But still, sometimes you have to do stuff you don't want to do, especially when you are in this division.

[murrayfan420]

I’m not upset about Tex anymore, and we don’t need to get into the same arguments.

What annoys me is that AM thinks he can point to the time when he offered the least amount of money to an impact free agent as hope for our franchise. That seems pretty stupid to me and doesn’t get me excited for our future forays into free agency.

[Skeletor]

I remember distinctly Roch and Schmuck reporting that MacPhail was having an ongoing dialogue with Boras in an attempt to get Tex here AFTER the initial offer was made AND that Boras would always steer the conversation towards his other clients like Ivan Rodriguez.

The man tried. He didn't make an initial offer and wait by the phone. Tex wanted to play

for the Yankees. Get over it.

[JTrea81]

But still, sometimes you have to do stuff you don't want to do, especially when you are in this division.

And this is what is going to keep us from winning under MacPhail IMO. He has his way of doing things, and isn't willing to adapt to the division he's in.

[TiredofLosing20]

It's unclear whether Boras ever countered the O's offer,

I don't think he would have chosen Baltimore over NY even if we'd matched the offer, and it's not clear whether we were given that opportunity.

If you believe AM (which I do) it is very clear that Boras never got back to him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/jeff-zrebiec-ta.html

[Dipper9]

It's really a weak defense by MacPhail.

I'll go with Lackey for example.

If MacPhail offers 5/75 and other teams offer 5/85-90, does that mean the 5/75 is an acceptable offer compared to the others?

Sure he can say he offered $140 million for Tex, but when that offer is 20 million below one you already know is out there, what's the point of making that offer, especially to a Boras client?

If we are going to offer big money, then we have to make sure we have the highest offer on the table. Bottom line. Otherwise it's just another token offer to make it seem like we are willing to spend money yet the player doesn't want to come here.

This is BS, and this entire thread is just another way for you to bash the Orioles over this Tex thing, which is a YEAR OLD by the way!

You have to set limits. You don't go onto EBAY and say, I am winning this auction no matter what! You just don't do that. You set a limit in your head of what you want to bet for the item. Then, when the chips are all on the table and there are 5 minutes left, you MAY make an argument that you're willing to add so much to your offer. But if you STILL get beat out, you do NOT just bet the mortgage just to get that item. Its the same in baseball. The Yankees are the ONLY team in baseball who can bet the house on whichever player they want. They are the ONLY ones who can outbid everyone to assure that whatever player they target, they will get. The rest of baseball cannot do that, and you can make all the "Angelos is cheap" or "MASN is making money" arguments you want, it does not change this fact.

[Skeletor]

And this is what is going to keep us from winning under MacPhail IMO. He has his way of doing things, and isn't willing to adapt to the division he's in.

Yeah, MacPhail is too dumb to realize that perhaps he needs to adjust his approach since his team is in the AL East.

Whatever.

[ChesterPeake]

Yea...This is a guy that AM is stating would have been very important to us..im many ways...And the best he could was put the worst offer on the table and that is supposed to make us believe that the Orioles are going to be serious players for big time FAs?

I will believe it when AM starts offering these types of deals to guys without "geographical advantages"... and not just offering it but improving the offer and getting the player.

I have always said that if a Vlad or Tejada "bargain contract" is out there, I have a lot of confidence that AM can get that player...But outside of that, I don't see him reeling in the big time FAs..which for the most part if a good thing but not always.

I agree with you completely on these points.

I think that AM wants to do what you say but I can't bring myself to believe that PA will allow AM to do what is necessary in terms of the number of dollars and years in the original offer, improving the offer, or negotiating in a way that leads to a successful conclusion. I will need to see it to believe it.

Rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly, I just have the idea that super lawyer Peter Angelos would focus so much on "winning" the negotiation with a star player's agent that signing the player would become impossible.

BTW, I think using the offer to Tex of an example of the O's willingness to spend money was a poor choice on AM's part. I'm not falling for the old "well, at least we tried" trick ever again.

[Moose Milligan]

"We have to be careful about who those (big dollar) players are. And I have to be responsible. Contracts of that magnitude, unless you are an extroadinarily wealthy club, can sink a franchise. You have to be judicious when you go out there."

Trea, what does this mean to you? Can you summarize this please?

Convenient...

[carolinaoriole]

If a person wants to buy a car.

Does that person offer more than he thinks it is worth.

I do not think anyone would.

If they did.

They would be considered a fool.

[TiredofLosing20]

And this is what is going to keep us from winning under MacPhail IMO. He has his way of doing things, and isn't willing to adapt to the division he's in.

Boras informed Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail on Tuesday that Teixeira would sign elsewhere.

"We would have loved to have had the player, who appealed to us because of the special circumstances of where he's from and where we are. We diverted from our plan to try to get him," MacPhail said. "But at the end of the day, it was just too much to pay for one player. It would handicap our ability to go forward."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/23/mark-teixeira-yankees-she_n_153235.html

[Frobby]

And this is what is going to keep us from winning under MacPhail IMO. He has his way of doing things, and isn't willing to adapt to the division he's in.

I have never bought, and still don't buy, the notion that it matters what division we are in for purposes of determining what we can afford to pay for free agents. If we had been in the AL West, would that have changed the fact that the Yankees and Red Sox were in on the bidding for Tex?

It's pretty simple: if New York is in on the bidding for a player, they can always outbid the Orioles, no matter what division the Orioles are in. The point at which it is illogical for the O's to go any higher will almost always be lower than the point where the same contract is illogical for the Yankees. Boston's slightly different -- their economics are much better than the O's, but nowhere near what the Yankees are. So, in certain circumstances the O's actually might have times where it makes sense for them to outbid the Red Sox for a player. But the fact that we happen to be in the same division as NY and Boston is beside the point.

[tom smith]

I agree with Trea. It’s hard to get fired up about the franchise offering the least amount of money to a potential home town savior (regardless of the fact that he always was going to the Yanks anyways). All that proves is they weren’t willing to be a serious player.

If you guys remember that was our first and only offer because Tex did not want to come here. I'm not saying we would have been the high bidder but I think if Tex really wanted to come here our offer would have been higher and more in line with what others offered. I'm willing to wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks before I jump on AM.

[Moose Milligan]

I have never bought, and still don't buy, the notion that it matters what division we are in for purposes of determining what we can afford to pay for free agents. If we had been in the AL West, would that have changed the fact that the Yankees and Red Sox were in on the bidding fot Tex?

It's pretty simple: if New York is in on the bidding for a player, they can always outbid the Orioles, no matter what division the Orioles are in. The point at which it is illogical for the O's to go any higher will always be lower than the point where the same contract is illogical for the Yankees. Boston's slightly different -- their economics are much better than the O's, but nowhere near what the Yankees are. So, in certain circumstances the O's actually might have times where it makes sense for them to outbid the Red Sox for a player. But the fact that we happen to be in the same division as NY and Boston is beside the point.

+1

Doesn't get any better than this.