Chris Tillman: To trade or not to trade?

[Sports Guy]

Says who? I just saw where you were comparing Hayden Penn to Tillman. If you truly believe those two ever resembled each other you have about as much talent recognizing ability as the late Syd Thrift on his worst day. So because you say Matusz is head and shoulders above Tillman we are supposed to believe it? That is hilarious!!

FYI, Penn never in a million years had a curve ball to buckle anyone's knees the way Tillman's does. You have no clue whatsover if you think those two were ever comparable other than possibly using some sort of stats in the minors. They were and are totally different style pitchers all together.

There stuff, age and size were very similar IMO.

The difference is poise, intelligence, etc...

I am sorry but I dare you to start a poll asking who would you trade, Tillman or Matusz and people will laugh at you..Its not close.

Tony said Matusz is the best pitching prospect he has ever seen in the Orioles and that some Orioles officials have told him that he is only a #4 type starter.

You keep talking about his curve ball...great...You need more than a curveball to be a good pitcher.

[andrewrickli]

Kid, did you actually watch Penn pitch in the Majors?? Did you watch Tillman pitch? It was night and freakin day. Don't throw useless numbers from the minors at me when all I needed to see were the games they both played at the only level that matters. Hayden pitched like a scared rabbit and thus got us Robert Andino and Tillman is considered one our building blocks of the future.

Im throwing you numbers because you said that they "were never remotly close to the same" when in reality, the Minor League carrer numbers say differently.

[andrewrickli]

You keep talking about his curve ball...great...You need more than a curveball to be a good pitcher.

A la Rich Hill, Old fan

[Sports Guy]

There's a difference between Baltimore #2 prospect, and a top 20 prospect in baseball. Plus, Penn never had the kind of stuff Tillman does.

Sure he did...Both had relatively straight fastballs that wen 89-94...Both had good changeups, that could be plus at times...And both had good curves, although Tillman's is probably a little better.

They both were very good in the minors at young ages.

Both were flyball pitchers.

But Tillman is way ahead in the "between the ears" stuff and that is a major difference.

[Old#5fan]

Kid, did you actually watch Penn pitch in the Majors?? Did you watch Tillman pitch? It was night and freakin day. Don't throw useless numbers from the minors at me when all I needed to see were the games they both played at the only level that matters. Hayden pitched like a scared rabbit and thus got us Robert Andino and Tillman is considered one our building blocks of the future.

Apparently not or else he doesn't know a curve from a fastball in watching someone pitch. Hayden Penn has a batting practice fastball and a mediocre Triple A curve (at best). Tillman has a curve that resembles several HOF pitchers I have seen including Palmer. The difference as you say is night and day.

[Hooded Viper]

I agree...Tillman beats them both "upstairs"...But the way you are dismissing things and acting in this thread is the type of thinking that has caused this team to be so pathetic and have such poor luck with pitching over the years.

Not sure what you mean by how I am acting. We had the worst rotation in the majors last season and we have 3 young stud pitchers who could certainly help in overcoming that from here on out and Trea starts a thread about trading one of them. I am dead set against it. I have stated my case and now I am getting certain child posters giving me the Nanny, Nanny, Boo Boo argument.

[wildcard]

See MacPhail's comments in the signature line below. I think he was pretty darn clear.

[andrewrickli]

There's a difference between Baltimore #2 prospect, and a top 20 prospect in baseball. Plus, Penn never had the kind of stuff Tillman does.

What Tillman got? A curveball? IF you want that go with Rich Hill...Tillman needs to get out of the top of the strike zone, this is why scouts say he will be a flyball pitcher with an enourmous HR tally. Ship him to Det, where the field is bigger.

[andrewrickli]

See MacPhail comments in the signature line below. I think he was pretty darn clear.

And Im sure he would give up Tillman for 6 years of a big time #4 hitter. How much longer is Tillman under control for.

Also, if you remember, AM stated that "arms are mor fragile that position players are".

[Old#5fan]

There stuff, age and size were very similar IMO.

The difference is poise, intelligence, etc...

I am sorry but I dare you to start a poll asking who would you trade, Tillman or Matusz and people will laugh at you..Its not close.

Tony said Matusz is the best pitching prospect he has ever seen in the Orioles and that some Orioles officials have told him that he is only a #4 type starter.

You keep talking about his curve ball...great...You need more than a curveball to be a good pitcher.

True, but Tillman has one that you might only seen once every twenty years. (Yes, its that good). His fastball is his secondary pitch and if he learns to keep it down he could easily become the future ACE of this staff. His stuff is much better than Matsuz who is only ahead of him right now as he is more mature and has better command. (Its certainly not that his stuff is better).

[Sports Guy]

And Im sure he would give up Tillman for 6 years of a big time #4 hitter. How much longer is Tillman under control for.

Also, if you remember, AM stated that "arms are mor fragile that position players are".

Not MCab though....Too many off field stuff for him to trade Tillman for him IMO.

[Old#5fan]

Not sure what you mean by how I am acting. We had the worst rotation in the majors last season and we have 3 young stud pitchers who could certainly help in overcoming that from hear on out and Trea starts a thread about trading one of them. I am dead set against it. I have stated my case and now I am getting certain child posters giving me the Nanny, Nanny, Boo Boo argument.

I agree. I have seen nothing resembling any type of valid argument to trading Tillman. This guy should be considered our number uno prospect because his age and stuff puts him ahead of Matusz as a potential ACE.

[Sports Guy]

True, but Tillman has one that you might only see once every twenty years. (Yes, its that good). His fastball is his secondary pitch and if he learns to keep it down he could easily become the future ACE of this staff. His stuff is much better than Matsuz who is only ahead of him right now as he is more mature and has better command. (Its certainly not that his stuff is better).

LOL...You don't watch much baseball do you...There are tons of great curveballs out there.

And he doesn't have better stuff than Matusz..at least not right now.

[andrewrickli]

Not sure what you mean by how I am acting. We had the worst rotation in the majors last season and we have 3 young stud pitchers who could certainly help in overcoming that from hear on out and Trea starts a thread about trading one of them. I am dead set against it. I have stated my case and now I am getting certain child posters giving me the Nanny, Nanny, Boo Boo argument.

Exuse me? Im not a child poster giving you the Nany, Nanny...Im giving you facts...something that you can't seem to come up with...

I'm giving you actuall Minor league #s to compare the two, and you are just rambling on and on and on and on...AND ON

[andrewrickli]

LOL...You don't watch much baseball do you...There are tons of great curveballs out there.

And he doesn't have better stuff than Matusz..at least not right now.

Rich Hills curve ball is great, but thats about the only thing he has. Bedard has a wicked on also, so I agree, he isn't watching many other teams