Jump to content

Warehouse Excuses - Nothing Ever Changes!


Old#5fan

Recommended Posts

I don't care about change. I want to see wins, a winning ML product.

I get this. You can only be patient for so long before you need to see some results.

For me, I need to see a significant increase in wins in 2010. I think we are a 76-79 win team right now, and I probably could live with that, knowing that it's a pretty significant improvement and more improvement can be expected as our players mature. But I'd really like to see another move or two that lead me to feel we have a very good chance to actually have a winning record in 2010.

What I don't want to see, though, is a move that looks splashy, costs a lot of money, but doesn't really improve the win total that significantly and makes it harder for us to make better strategic moves down the road. I'd give up 3-4 wins in 2010 if it means a better chance at setting the team up for contention down the road.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 314
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I think the O's are heading in the right direction, but I certainly understand that some fans are getting concerned. Although the off season is not over yet by a long shot, and Holliday still remains out there, if MacPhail goes into spring training with no clean up hitter and without addressing a long term solution at shortstop then I can see why people are starting to get very antsy.

He's got some chips to deal with some solid young pitching (Matusz, Tillman and Britton excluded) that should peak some interest along with a guy who like Pie who could value as an everday CF somewhere. At some point he's got to make a bold move and trade from his strength.

I truly think this team needs a real #4 hitter and I'm not sure you want Wieters to be that guy. Wieters is more of a #3 guy for me, and Markakis is a #2. Is Jones that guy one day? Perhaps, but I don't see him really having that kind of power. Bell, Snyder, Reimold? None really project into that big 40 homer bopper. Holliday may not be a 40 homer guy, but I think he could be a solid 30-35 homer guy in Camden Yards.

A Roberts, Markakis, Wieters, Holliday, Jones, Bell, Reimold, Snyder, SS future lineup looks pretty damn good to me...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to see rapid change, all you have to do is open your eyes. Of the key roster spots that matter, two thirds of them are, or will soon be, filled by guys who weren't wearing an Orioles uniform just 10 months ago. And, with only a couple exceptions, they're all talented young guys. Anybody who says that we are not in the midst of very rapid change is simply not paying attention to reality...

Change doesn't matter if you don't win, and I understand that sentiment.

However, the path MacPhail has taken to revamp this organization talent-wise was the only way to make change. Unfortunately for many, we're still on that path.

You guys can pound your fists all you want.

This is the only way. Dumping $18MM into a position that we already have capably filled would be stupid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well who are you to say he can't be doing it faster either? I think this is what some of use see as the problem. He's moving at a snails pace instead of a hare.

It's not me who's saying it, it's baseball history that's saying it. Nobody has rebuilt a crappy franchise into a good one at a faster pace than AM is on. Nobody. For all your talk about having followed baseball a long time, you don't seem to know very much about what it teaches...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see this as an 80 win team or thereabouts. I think we improved our SP with Millwood, our bullpen with Gonzalez, but we have done nothing so far, to upgrade our offense. If we don't, and as of now I can't see how we can, then I don't like having to rely only on growth from our in house bats. I see too many possibilities for regression there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the O's are heading in the right direction, but I certainly understand that some fans are getting concerned. Although the off season is not over yet by a long shot, and Holliday still remains out there, if MacPhail goes into spring training with no clean up hitter and without addressing a long term solution at shortstop then I can see why people are starting to get very antsy.

He's got some chips to deal with some solid young pitching (Matusz, Tillman and Britton excluded) that should peak some interest along with a guy who like Pie who could value as an everday CF somewhere. At some point he's got to make a bold move and trade from his strength.

I truly think this team needs a real #4 hitter and I'm not sure you want Wieters to be that guy. Wieters is more of a #3 guy for me, and Markakis is a #2. Is Jones that guy one day? Perhaps, but I don't see him really having that kind of power. Bell, Snyder, Reimold? None really project into that big 40 homer bopper. Holliday may not be a 40 homer guy, but I think he could be a solid 30-35 homer guy in Camden Yards.

A Roberts, Markakis, Wieters, Holliday, Jones, Bell, Reimold, Snyder, SS future lineup looks pretty damn good to me...

Agree with this post 100%. I'm not going to be mad if we don't get Holliday. I just look at him as a good fit for this team. There is a lot of uncertainty as to who would be available next offseason when we are supposedly looking to add that key player.

Plus, as you pointed out, it gives us the flexibility to move Pie and an arm for a long-term SS.

I think adding Holliday's bat moves us closer to being a .500 team this season. With the progression of the pitching and hitters we already have, 2011 could be a year where we contend and we should still have some payroll flexibility to get a pitcher or hitter we need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see this as an 80 win team or thereabouts. I think we improved our SP with Millwood, our bullpen with Gonzalez, but we have done nothing so far, to upgrade our offense. If we don't, and as of now I can't see how we can, then I don't like having to rely only on growth from our in house bats. I see too many possibilities for regression there.

I agree, we need another bat before this winter ends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Change doesn't matter if you don't win, and I understand that sentiment.

However, the path MacPhail has taken to revamp this organization talent-wise was the only way to make change. Unfortunately for many, we're still on that path.

You guys can pound your fists all you want.

This is the only way. Dumping $18MM into a position that we already have capably filled would be stupid.

No it isn't. This is not the only way to do it. Let's consider the alternatives: trade Roberts, sign top international talent for the minor leagues and the majors, draft better. Furthermore, it isn't stupid to dump $18mm into a LF if it allows the team to fill other holes that cannot be filled with $18mm on the FA market or that cannot be acquired in a trade without suitable talent.

The ultra conservative, apologist argument is getting so tiresome. Be more creative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While this would be nice, its not a must if AM and DT get smart and realize they should just move Scott to first.

Much more important to go get a long SS solution.

You know I agree with you on Scott, but I just see no evidence that this will happen, so I'm just moving on. As to SS, that's a very important long term priority, but I don't have the sense that MacPhail has made it a high priority for this winter. Maybe he will surprise us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know I agree with you on Scott, but I just see no evidence that this will happen, so I'm just moving on. As to SS, that's a very important long term priority, but I don't have the sense that MacPhail has made it a high priority for this winter. Maybe he will surprise us.

If this is true, it is pretty sad that he has made mediocre CIers and a closer a bigger need than a long term solution at a huge position of need within the organization.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No it isn't. This is not the only way to do it. Let's consider the alternatives: trade Roberts, sign top international talent for the minor leagues and the majors, draft better. Furthermore, it isn't stupid to dump $18mm into a LF if it allows the team to fill other holes that cannot be filled with $18mm on the FA market or that cannot be acquired in a trade without suitable talent.

The ultra conservative, apologist argument is getting so tiresome. Be more creative.

Okay, how about it's the SMARTEST way to do it.

It's obviously not the only way to do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, how about it's the SMARTEST way to do it.

It's obviously not the only way to do it.

Why is it the smartest way of doing it?

What if signing Holliday allowed you to make another deal or 2 to bring in some prospects and potential long term solutions at SS and/or first.

All of a sudden, its not so stupid.

I mean, since you like AM so much and believe he will take us to where we need to go, you do believe that he can pull off several things at once, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this is true, it is pretty sad that he has made mediocre CIers and a closer a bigger need than a long term solution at a huge position of need within the organization.

Obviously, we have no idea what is going on in the Warehouse. But I certainly haven't read a single thing from MacPhail, or even from the reporters who cover the team, that suggests the O's have been exploring SS opportunities. Have you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Posts

    • His real age will match his baseball age in June.   He could have a role next year assuming Hays doesn't come back.  
    • High school players are also less likely to make the majors than college players. Picking Abrams or Witt would also increase the chances your 1:1 pick is a bust, or at least less than you hoped for. When I say Adley wasn't a "safe" pick, I meant that the Orioles didn't sacrifice much, if any, ceiling to raise the floor. I remember the vast majority of pundits saying that Adley was the most likely player in the draft to be an excellent baseball player. A few said they thought Witt or Abrams had a higher ceiling, but they also were less likely to reach it than Adley. And even they were like, "slightly higher ceiling, much lower floor, and C is more valuable than SS." Even if more all-star level players come out of high school, in that particular draft Adley was a special player who had a super high floor and a super high ceiling. The fact that high school players are more likely in general to be all-stars shouldn't blind one to the fact that there was an incredibly special college talent available at 1:1. Bottom line is the idea that the O's should have picked anyone other than Adley in that draft was a small minority opinion on draft day, and the fact that Witt and maybe Abrams ended up hitting their ceilings doesn't change the fact that Adley was the obvious choice with the information available at the time, and it's not like it didn't work out awesome for us. I would say Adley is definitely more likely to be a HOF than Abrams and probably Witt, too.
    • Yeah, but Westburg has become such a staple to the lineup and begun to establish himself offensively I thought they might do the Gunnar thing and say 3B is yours.  No more back and forth. 
    • I'm rambling now, but the 1928 A's may have been one of the coolest teams ever to hang around. Not only did they have a bunch of these old IL Orioles, and an unbelievable stock of young talent. But Mack had brought in some old guys, I guess to provide leadership and mentoring and the like. So on this one team they had the younger HOFs: Mickey Cochrane, Al Simmons, Jimmie Foxx, Lefty Grove. They had the Orioles in Boley, Bishop, Grove, Earnshaw. But on top of all that, they had 41-year-old Ty Cobb, 40-year-old Tris Speaker, 41-year-old Eddie Collins, 44-year-old Jack Quinn, and 35-year-old Bullet Joe Bush. Of course Cobb, Speaker, and Collins are inner-circle HOFers, among the best to ever play their position. Quinn was a grandfathered spitballer, probably worthy of a book or three, who won 96 games in his 40s and pitched his last MLB game at the age of 50. And Bush had a 17-year career where he won 196 games. The '28 A's won 98 games and only finished 2.5 games behind a Yanks team that was the freakin' '27 Yanks the year before. For '29 Mack say goodbye to Cobb, Speaker, made Collins a coach, plugged in the kids, and ran away with the league for three straight years. Until the Depression hit, Connie didn't have any other sources of income or wealth, and for the 2nd time had to sell off his stars to make payroll.
    • If they really want to get his bat going, send him to Delmarva!
    • Sounds like the FO believes Norby and Mayo (both righties) need to work more on their defense Holliday and Stowers (both lefties) need to work more on their hitting
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...