Windsor outpitched Loewen

[Tx Oriole]

haven't you learned this is one of the Golden boys. You have to go along with all the he walks on water attitudes. Never say anything negative about him. Too many walks lead to runs. I am with you on this one.

[DrungoHazewood]

haven't you learned this is one of the Golden boys. You have to go along with all the he walks on water attitudes. Never say anything negative about him. Too many walks lead to runs. I am with you on this one.

No, no, no. The best thing to do is to tear him down, hound him, destroy him, berate him, give up on him, call for his trade. If a guy can't get the ball over the plate at 22 he won't ever amount to anything. If he's not great in his first few starts he'll never get there. We need to dump him for whatever we can get. Is Jason Grimsley available?

Patience is for chumps.

[Fan4Life]

I could more easily swallow some bashing of Conine, Millar, Patterson and Markakis who all had SEVERAL opportunities to put this game away early and between ending inning double plays, foul outs to infielders, strikeouts.. they were all generally pathetic.. can't get trade values up with results like this..

[J.D.]

No, no, no. The best thing to do is to tear him down, hound him, destroy him, berate him, give up on him, call for his trade. If a guy can't get the ball over the plate at 22 he won't ever amount to anything. If he's not great in his first few starts he'll never get there. We need to dump him for whatever we can get. Is Jason Grimsley available?

Patience is for chumps.

And besides... chicks dig the four-pitch walk.

[aggro5288]

I was at the game last night, and it was CLEAR that Windsor did not pitch better ... for the first three innings EVERY ball hit was crushed (besides the Fahey bunt) and he got saved by those double plays ... Windsor was very unimpressive whereas Loewen was amazing when he threw strikes.

[erb8472]

I actually was very impressed with Adam last night.

He walked a lot of batters like Cabrera, but he did something Cabrera is not capable of doing.

Minimizing damage.

It's never ok to walk a batter, but if you do you have to be able to make sure they don't score. Loewen only struggled for one inning really. The A's didn't score on Adam last night, Adam scored on himself.

[tennOsfan]

Loewen is nasty. When he can begin making hitters bite on that cutting fastball and then make them watch the change on the outside part of the plate, he'll be dynamite.

Despite the walks, from what I saw last night, I don't think he's far from being dominant. Unlike Cabrera, he actually has three quality pitches, and it'd be hard to find a pitcher with a fastball that moves more than his.

[Slickee]

It seemed from TV that the strike zone was small and had the O's batter been a little patient they would have drawn those walks as well.

[Cokeman]

I actually was very impressed with Adam last night.

He walked a lot of batters like Cabrera, but he did something Cabrera is not capable of doing.

Minimizing damage.

It's never ok to walk a batter, but if you do you have to be able to make sure they don't score. Loewen only struggled for one inning really. The A's didn't score on Adam last night, Adam scored on himself.

You mean like when Cabrera pitched 6 inn against Minnesota and gave up 6 walks, 5 hits, 0 ER...or when he pitched 4 inn against KC and gave up 7 walks, 2 hits, 2ER...or when he pitched against TB and gave up 9 walks, 1 hit, 1 ER...or when he pitched against Toronto and gave up 5 walks, 3 hits, 0 ER?

I would say that Cabrera is certainly able to minimize damage.

[NewMarketSean]

No, no, no. The best thing to do is to tear him down, hound him, destroy him, berate him, give up on him, call for his trade. If a guy can't get the ball over the plate at 22 he won't ever amount to anything. If he's not great in his first few starts he'll never get there. We need to dump him for whatever we can get. Is Jason Grimsley available?

Patience is for chumps.

It seems like people are on either side of the spectrum nowadays. Either everyone sucks or we must be monks and have supreme patience when it comes to players.

I think I'm the only one in the middle. You all may think I was calling for Loewen's head and calling for him to be traded, sent down, whatever -- but I was not. I was simply voicing frustration.

I had my hopes up. In the "How do you think Loewen will pitch tonight" thread, I got my hopes up too much. I said I thought/hoped that he would really look great. I listed the reasons why. I felt they were good reasons. It didn't happen. I was disappointed. However he kept us in the game and we won. Can't be that down on the guy. But I wish his had shown some improvement after what he had done in the past month. That lead me to be frustrated about progress from all players.

[J.D.]

It seems like people are on either side of the spectrum nowadays. Either everyone sucks or we must be monks and have supreme patience when it comes to players.

I think I'm the only one in the middle. You all may think I was calling for Loewen's head and calling for him to be traded, sent down, whatever -- but I was not. I was simply voicing frustration.

I had my hopes up. In the "How do you think Loewen will pitch tonight" thread, I got my hopes up too much. I said I thought/hoped that he would really look great. I listed the reasons why. I felt they were good reasons. It didn't happen. I was disappointed. However he kept us in the game and we won. Can't be that down on the guy. But I wish his had shown some improvement after what he had done in the past month. That lead me to be frustrated about progress from all players.

I just said that patience had to be exercised. There's a point where patience runs out. I just felt that you were jumping the gun and being a bit harsh on a guy that's 22 with 7 or 8 ML starts under his belt, that's all.

By all means, when a guy can't harness his control and has proven that consistently over a long period of time, get frustrated. I'm frustrated by Cabrera's progress. I'd even consider moving him in the right deal, but Cabrera's been in the bigs for almost three full seasons now, not just 8 starts.

If we'd had the same impatience with Bedard, he'd be posting spectacular numbers elsewhere right now. I think there are plenty of people around here that play the patience game down the middle more than you're giving credit for. I simply said what I said because I felt that you were being a little quick to slam down the criticisms. That said, I can understand being disappointed. I wanted Loewen to come out and strike out 12 A's last night. It didn't happen, but he pitched well enough to win the game. Good enough for me right now.

[Witchy_Chick]

Yes this is for real. Other teams (like the A's and Windsor) seem to be able to pull a pitcher out of their system and plop him into the rotation with ease.

Yeah, 'cause these guys never gave up any stinkers in their rookie years.

Hudson rookie year starts (11-2 record, 23 years old)

September 17, 1999

Mulder rookie year starts (9-10 record, 22 years old)

May 26 2000

June 30, 2000

July 5, 2000 (back to back starts, BTW)

July 18, 2000

August 10, 2000

August 26, 2000

Blanton rookie year starts (12-12 record, 24 years old)

May 14, 2005

May 25, 2005

July 16, 2005

Harden rookie year starts (5-4 record, 21 years old)

August 15, 2003

August 21, 2005

September 6, 2003

I never pitched at the MLB level so I don't know what it's like. I just think that after 3-4 times there it's nothing special anymore.

Maybe it's just me -- but I would think as a MLB player, every time you step on the field is special.

A couple of points to be considered:

(1) Did anyone else hear Palmer mention that the baseballs in the minors are different than in the ML? That they have larger seams and are easier to grip, especially for the curve ball? And that on a hot humid night, Loewen might be having problems gripping the ball?

Thank you -- I was just about to bring that up. After being in the minors for a couple weeks, I find it entirely plausible that Loewen is probably re-adjusting to the seams of a major league baseball.

I know I could be opening a can of worms here, but we could be saying Loewen is only 26, 27... and still be waiting for him to find "it."

Lord knows we did it with Matt Riley --

Matt Riley played for the Orioles during his age years 19, 23, and 24. Try another comparison, please. And don't use DCab as his age years with us are 23, 24, 25. You can use him next year, though, if he's still wildly inconsistent.

Sean -- I know that you are frustrated with this team. But, it's tiresome when you villify or canonize players based on one game's performance. If Loewen is still pitching like this in a month or so, then go nuts on him.

Witchy

[NewMarketSean]

NMS. Thanks for the funniest post I've read in a long time. So most people on the Hangout are one extreme or the other and you are the voice of reason right there in the middle. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Good one!

Thank God for your knee. Without it you'd just be a jerk. That's supposed to be a joke.

I was 100% serious.

I also have said that some people on here would get laughed at in a room filled with regular O's fans the way people here rationalize every bad thing this team does, list excuses for why so and so isn't performing or why the team is bad -- and practice monk-like patience with players who don't improve after 3 years.

So, yes. I would say I am in the middle when it comes to the O's fan community. I am very critical, but can also see both sides of the argument.

Glad you had a laugh though.

[NewMarketSean]

Maybe it's just me -- but I would think as a MLB player, every time you step on the field is special.

I wish that were the case. However, a lot of guys like BJ Surhoff, Jeff Conine, Albert Belle, etc... don't look too excited to be on the field... ever.

Sean -- I know that you are frustrated with this team. But, it's tiresome when you villify or canonize players based on one game's performance. If Loewen is still pitching like this in a month or so, then go nuts on him.

I wasn't basing it on one games performance. I was basing it on his last few starts with the O's, the improvements he made down in Ottawa and then last night's outing.

Is it wrong for me to expect a 1st round pick to "get it" quicker than others? Especially after 3-4 years in the minors? Now I wasn't expecting a CG shut out -- heck, if he got a little roughed up I wouldn't have minded.

I was mainly looking for some control and he threw more balls than strikes.

[Hank Scorpio]

I realize that it's tough, dude. Hell, we haven't HAD "good" young players here..... EVER, really. I am at the point with Cabrera that you are with Loewen, but that's after watching the same pitcher over a 2 year period with marginal improvement.

It takes some getting used to waiting for youth to grow up but you might as well get used to it. Give the kid a chance at this level. This isn't Taco Bell, good things take time. I'm willing to watch Loewen go out there and learn for the remainder of the year because I think he'll "get it".