Reporting in

[FutureOwner]

Did they? When you announce to everyone that you need to be blown away to trade Tejada, you are basically telling the other GM that he needs to make a bad trade in order to get your guy.

Thats what I took of the situation, just as any team who is not actively shopping the cornerstone of their franchise would likley expect to make such a move.

[Miller192]

This doesn't make sense to me.

If you trade Tejada, you are better off doing it now than in the offseason because impending FA can see what we are trying to do and they can evaluate the talent (you acquired) on the field.

If you do it in December, why would any FA sign here?

Either way, i think it unlikely we sign any of the big time FA so Tejada should have been dealt either way.

That can go both ways. I don't know if any FA would want to come here when we have a bunch of rookies. It would be hard to evaluate talent when you have never seen it before.

I think you and I have come to the same conclusion just by different means. It is unlikely we are going to be able to sign someone this offseason. Duquette hinted that by spending big, the O's could be competitive next year. That is why I would feel more comfortable if we had another "hired" gun in the lineup before trading Miggy.

Since that's not likely, let's deal him and be patient while our prospects develop.

[rolliefingers]

No, he's not, and he's not a better player either. You will be hard pressed to make upi Tejadas production on a team by replacing him with another player at a traditonal power position such as LF or 1B, while replacing him at SS.

For instance:

Tejada/Gibbons>

Ortiz/Gonzales

Pujols/Eckstein

etc

You don't think we'd be better with Ortiz at DH and a below-average offensive SS than we would with Tejada and our current terrible DH situation? I do.

[TonySoprano]

He said the deals for Tejada were no where close to being pulled off. The national media is way off on this. We were holding out for 4 players from the Angels and had no interest in the Houston SS.

I just wanted to pass along that I spoke with my contact this evening and the proposed Houston deal is on Angelos desk. Flanny and Duq like this deal alot and my guy seems to believe the trigger will be pulled!!!! Please keep in mind this is not yet official but looking much more likely that Tejada will be traded to Houston.

Can you guys please compare notes? Your sources don't seem to be in agreement over what happened.

[davearm]

Maybe they need to ADD to their roster, not subtract.

My statement of not NEEDING to trade Tejada was meant to imply that the other teams approached this as if we were shopping Tejada trying to get whatever we could for him and this was not the case. If you think the middle of this season, under a deadline dealing with 2 or 3 teams is the best time to make one of the most important decisions this team will make than we have a difference of opinion.

So you think we should jump at the opportuity to trade our best player, the best player this organization has had in 10 years for whatever we were offered?

If the Angels were gonna be sucked inot filling the needs we wanted, than I could see pulling the trigger, if not, then wait to see what happens in the offseason. We know we arent making the playoffs this season, theres no rush for us. They still have hope of winning their weak division, and needed to decide how much that meant to them, apparently it didnt mean KOTCHMAN, WOOD, SANTANA and AYBAR. Id say they had more at stake than we did. Is their goal to spend close to $100M and pimp the team to their fans as a WS contender so they can finish 2nd or 3rd in the worst divison in the AL?

Tejada DOES NOT NEED to be traded. If the team will be better with what someone might give us then you make the trade, if not, then you dont, but there is no pressure on the Orioles to trade Tejada.

There is no pressure on the Orioles to trade Tejada, true.

But there is mounting pressure on the Orioles to improve to the point where they're a legit contender. That pressure comes from from 9 straight losing seasons and an OPACY that is all too often 1/3 full.

I go back and forth with this to be perfectly honest, but when I see names like Santana Aybar Wood Kotchman etc. etc. flying around, it becomes easier for me to envision a 90+ wins O's team that doesn't include Tejada than one that does. That's obviously pure opinion, and there's certainly merit to the opposite viewpoint.

[rolliefingers]

You'd probably be right if it was the O's that were shopping Tejada. But from the stuff we've heard it sounds like the O's weren't trying to trade Tejada and were just listening to offers. They said give us 2 provens and 2 prospects, blow us away and we'll give him to you. Otherwise keep shopping because we don't have to trade Tejada at all.

OK, but at some point you have to get out of the King's throne and take a hard look at what teams are offering.

They said they'd have to be bowled over to move him, and I have come to disagree with that notion. I think they should have traded him if they thought it made the team better, period. IMO, the FO and PA give too much weight to "star power" and the "this guy is proven, and these prospects aren't" factor.

Santana + Aybar was close but no cigar. Those two + Kotchman would have clearly improved the team, short- and long-term. And IF that deal could have been had, we should have done it.

Forget about the four players, and hypothetical demands. What offers were on the table, and were they worth it? That's what we really need to know.

[FutureOwner]

You don't think we'd be better with Ortiz at DH and a below-average offensive SS than we would with Tejada and our current terrible DH situation? I do.

So we'd be better off with a SS hitting .260 with 3 HR and a sub .700 OPS and a DH putting up Tejadas numbers than with Gibbons at DH and Tejada at SS?

How does that make sense? DH is much easier to improve than SS offensively. Having an above avg offensive SS makes it easier to improve at other positions because the offense you bring at those position doesnt have to carry as much weight.

It wouldnt be hard to find a DH who can put up an OPS over .800 BUT THERE ARE FEW SS who can.

You are not making sense

[rp0806]

Maybe they need to ADD to their roster, not subtract.

The question is, how? THe FA market this year is pretty thin, and unless Angelos is willing to greatly increase the payroll, we're not going to get many top shelf FAs. At most we might get one top guy and a couple of ok guys. Of course the Orioles don't have to trade Tejada, but IMO trading him for a package of young players is the best way to add talent to the roster and build a winning team.

[rolliefingers]

So we'd be better off with a SS hitting .260 with 3 HR and a sub .700 OPS and a DH putting up Tejadas numbers than with Gibbons at DH and Tejada at SS?

How does that make sense? DH is much easier to improve than SS offensively. Having an above avg offensive SS makes it easier to improve at other positions because the offense you bring at those position doesnt have to carry as much weight.

It wouldnt be hard to find a DH who can put up an OPS over .800 BUT THERE ARE FEW SS who can.

You are not making sense

You didn't read my post.

[FutureOwner]

There is no pressure on the Orioles to trade Tejada, true.

But there is mounting pressure on the Orioles to improve to the point where they're a legit contender. That pressure comes from from 9 straight losing seasons and an OPACY that is all too often 1/3 full.

I go back and forth with this to be perfectly honest, but when I see names like Santana Aybar Wood Kotchman etc. etc. flying around, it becomes easier for me to envision a 90+ wins O's team that doesn't include Tejada than one that does. That's obviously pure opinion, and there's certainly merit to the opposite viewpoint.

When I see those names I think the same thing, but when I see 2 or 3 of those names I do not.

[FutureOwner]

You didn't read my post.

I absolutely DO NOT think so because ITS EASIER TO FIND A SERVICABLE DH THAN IT IS AN OFFENSIVELY GIFTED SS.

When Gibbons is healthy enough to play at DH Id certainly take him and Tejada over Ortiz and a below avg offensive SS.

Why would you rather have ONE great bat than ONE great bat and one SOLID bat?

[erb8472]

First of all Tejada's numbers are no where near Ortiz's.

Ortiz has 37 HR compared to 19.

Ortiz has 105 RBI compared to 77.

Ortiz has a 1.011 OPS compared to .894.

[erb8472]

I absolutely DO NOT think so because ITS EASIER TO FIND A SERVICABLE DH THAN IT IS AN OFFENSIVELY GIFTED SS.

When Gibbons is healthy enough to play at DH Id certainly take him and Tejada over Ortiz and a below avg offensive SS.

Why would you rather have ONE great bat than ONE great bat and one SOLID bat?

Ok which would you rather have Gibbons at 1B, and Ortiz at DH or Tejada at SS and Gibbons at DH?

That's essentially what you are asking. You act as if we had Ortiz and not Tejada that we wouldnt still have Gibbons.

[erb8472]

When I see those names I think the same thing, but when I see 2 or 3 of those names I do not.

You are crazy if you don't think Santana and Wood would help us more than Tejada.

[rolliefingers]

I absolutely DO NOT think so because ITS EASIER TO FIND A SERVICABLE DH THAN IT IS AN OFFENSIVELY GIFTED SS.

When Gibbons is healthy enough to play at DH Id certainly take him and Tejada over Ortiz and a below avg offensive SS.

Why would you rather have ONE great bat than ONE great bat and one SOLID bat?

Of course, so would I, but that's not the comparison you initially made.