Vlad about to fall in the O's lap?

[JTrea81]

Trea, this particular age comparison is just not useful. How established, exactly, was Luke's bat by age 27? Answer: career OPS .557. So you can't say that we should all know everything there is to know about Reimold and Pie by this point. Nolan has had a total of 434 AB so far, and of those he was physically healthy for maybe 200? Felix has had more - 800 - but not two full season's worth, and 250 of those were spread over sporadic AB's with Chi.

I have no problem with seeing Pie/Reimold go head to head for LF in spring training, and I don't want Vlad taking at bats away from them.

Why stop where we are though? What are we gaining by putting Pie and Reimold out there other than saving money and possibly winning less?

Why automatically assume Pie and Reimold are going to turn it around?

[JTrea81]

The important thing is that the Rangers are handing their first round pick to the Red Sox for Beltre. That's something nice to fall in a lap.

So they picked up #19 from Detroit. #25 from Texas. And the 2 supplementals and lost the # 24 for Crawford while also getting AGon.

Yeah, the Red Sox are going to rule this division for years to come.

[Art Wing]

Trea, this particular age comparison is just not useful. How established, exactly, was Luke's bat by age 27? Answer: career OPS .557. So you can't say that we should all know everything there is to know about Reimold and Pie by this point. Nolan has had a total of 434 AB so far, and of those he was physically healthy for maybe 200? Felix has had more - 800 - but not two full season's worth, and 250 of those were spread over sporadic AB's with Chi.

I have no problem with seeing Pie/Reimold go head to head for LF in spring training, and I don't want Vlad taking at bats away from them.

:agree:

________________________

[24fps]

Trea, this particular age comparison is just not useful. How established, exactly, was Luke's bat by age 27? Answer: career OPS .557. So you can't say that we should all know everything there is to know about Reimold and Pie by this point. Nolan has had a total of 434 AB so far, and of those he was physically healthy for maybe 200? Felix has had more - 800 - but not two full season's worth, and 250 of those were spread over sporadic AB's with Chi.

I have no problem with seeing Pie/Reimold go head to head for LF in spring training, and I don't want Vlad taking at bats away from them.

This is exactly what I want. Why on Earth would anyone keep Vladimir Guerrero out of the lineup so they can provide development time at the ML level for Felix Pie and Nolan Reimold?

Pie can be fourth OF and make his case for more PT in that role; that should be good for about 400 PA's. Reimold can show he's over his on and off-field problems at Norfolk. If either forces his way into the lineup Vlad get traded at the deadline.

[JTrea81]

This is exactly what I want. Why on Earth would anyone keep Vladimir Guerrero out of the lineup so they can provide development time at the ML level for Felix Pie and Nolan Reimold?

Pie can be fourth OF and make his case for more PT in that role; that should be good for about 400 PA's. Reimold can show he's over his on and off-field problems at Norfolk. If either forces his way into the lineup Vlad get traded at the deadline.

Bingo, the time for auditions is over.

What is more important - winning or winning only with mostly cheap, young players?

We need to move on with the core that we have. Anything Pie or Reimold can give us from either the 4th OF spot, as depth in AAA or in a trade is a bonus.

[Spy Fox]

Bingo, the time for auditions is over.

What is more important - winning or winning only with mostly cheap, young players?

We need to move on with the core that we have. Anything Pie or Reimold can give us from either the 4th OF spot, as depth in AAA or in a trade is a bonus.

What's more important, going for the most wins this year in a year we're very unlikely to be a playoff team, or going for the most wins over the next several years, when we are more likely to be a full contender?

[Sports Guy]

Why stop where we are though? What are we gaining by putting Pie and Reimold out there other than saving money and possibly winning less?

Why automatically assume Pie and Reimold are going to turn it around?

Why assume that Vlad and his aging body will be much of an improvement?

You said 1 or 2 more wins...That's not much of a difference.

Plus, you take away the chance that either Reimold or Pie are long term options for us. Just because you don't feel they are doesn't mean they aren't. Also, by blocking them, you hurt any trade value they could have.

[Art Wing]

Bingo, the time for auditions is over.

We need to move on with the core that we have. Anything Pie or Reimold can give us from either the 4th OF spot, as depth in AAA or in a trade is a bonus.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Have you forgotten that Reimold was the best hitter on our entire team as a rookie? The way you toss aside someone with as much talent and youth as Felix Pie makes me cringe.

At what end? All to get 1-2 more wins? I don't think Vlad would even give us that. The man is old and declining and a hobbling shell of his former self. Does he have a bit of value left? Sure, but it's been pointed out several times that he should go to a team that's close enough that the specific lift he could provide would make his addition worthwhile.

Trea, I've got to say my friend, you have this unceasing compulsion to spend for the sake of spending. A high payroll does not directly equate to a better team.

For what it's worth, if we do happen to take the dark road down the oldie DH path, I'm with SG favoring Thome to Vlad. I hope we don't go that route.

[JTrea81]

What's more important, going for the most wins this year in a year we're very unlikely to be a playoff team, or going for the most wins over the next several years, when we are more likely to be a full contender?

How is the fate of Pie and Reimold going to impact us in that regard?

At the most each would be a 2-3 win player and for Pie that's a pretty huge stretch IMO.

I don't see how say putting Reimold in AAA or on the bench to start the season and to trade Pie in ST is going to influence going for the most wins in 2012.

However, if our pitchers don't get the run support they need, and if Jones and Wieters don't take the next step, that will influence us heavily in years to come.

[24fps]

Bingo, the time for auditions is over.

What is more important - winning or winning only with mostly cheap, young players?

We need to move on with the core that we have. Anything Pie or Reimold can give us from either the 4th OF spot, as depth in AAA or in a trade is a bonus.

I think plenty of auditions will be taking place nonetheless, they just won't be whether marginal guys like Pie and Reimold belong at the ML level, but instead it will be whether presumed investment-grade guys like Wieters, Jones, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman are really worth being considered "core".

To my way of thinking, this is where the risk involved with young, unproven players at the ML level is appropriate.

[bsebllfan4life]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Have you forgotten that Reimold was the best hitter on our entire team as a rookie? The way you toss aside someone with as much talent and youth as Felix Pie makes me cringe.

At what end? All to get 1-2 more wins? I don't think Vlad would even give us that. The man is old and declining and a hobbling shell of his former self. Does he have a bit of value left? Sure, but it's been pointed out several times that he should go to a team that's close enough that the specific lift he could provide would make his addition worthwhile.

Trea, I've got to say my friend, you have this unceasing compulsion to spend for the sake of spending. A high payroll does not directly equate to a better team.

For what it's worth, if we do happen to take the dark road down the oldie DH path, I'm with SG favoring Thome to Vlad. I hope we don't go that route.

Not that I agree with the concept exactly, I don't know that signing a DH for 1 year is tossing away anything. I believe that Pie should be the 4th OF. I think he is talented but not great. I think he is a very good guy off the bench because of his speed and ability to play CF. With Reimold, I agree he has shown flashes of greatness, and if we are talking about someone for only one year it's not a big deal to me. Either Vlad is better for us this year and worst case Reimold plays another year in AAA, or Vlad is done and it is determined that Reimold is the better player now and he gets the playing time and Vlad is traded, glued to the bench or cut. I think either way the guy who is better this year will be the one with the playing time. I don't think that anyone would argue that Vlad is the better player moving forward, but I don't see the big reason to not find out who is better for the team this year.

[JTrea81]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Have you forgotten that Reimold was the best hitter on our entire team as a rookie? The way you toss aside someone with as much talent and youth as Felix Pie makes me cringe.

At what end? All to get 1-2 more wins? I don't think Vlad would even give us that. The man is old and declining and a hobbling shell of his former self. Does he have a bit of value left? Sure, but it's been pointed out several times that he should go to a team that's close enough that the specific lift he could provide would make his addition worthwhile.

Trea, I've got to say my friend, you have this unceasing compulsion to spend for the sake of spending. A high payroll does not directly equate to a better team.

For what it's worth, if we do happen to take the dark road down the oldie DH path, I'm with SG favoring Thome to Vlad. I hope we don't go that route.

I want to win as many games as we can next season.

Reimold hit poorly in AAA. Why do you think he's suddenly going to go back to 2009 levels in the majors no less?

What is the harm in sending him back to AAA to have him prove he can hit there? I just don't see it. At worst you have some depth - and that's a great problem to have.

As for Pie, he'll be 26. Did you not see that he's regressed two years in a row, and he can't stay on the field? We aren't talking some 22 or even 24 year old prospect any longer. We are talking a 4th OFer that could be replaced by numerous AAAA signings or FAs still out there on the market.

Is there a chance he could rebound, sure, but at 26 I doubt he's going to hit that ceiling that people thought he once could. He's not going to be Carlos Beltran, and he'll be lucky to be the 2010 version of Adam Jones IMO.

He's useful, but certainly not a full time option that any contending team would put out there.

And we need to start thinking like a contending team if we are ever going to become one. The auditions have to cease at some point, and that point is now.

[JTrea81]

I think plenty of auditions will be taking place nonetheless, they just won't be whether marginal guys like Pie and Reimold belong at the ML level, but instead it will be whether presumed investment-grade guys like Wieters, Jones, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman are really worth being considered "core".

To my way of thinking, this is where the risk involved with young, unproven players at the ML level is appropriate.

Right, we've got enough question marks in the lineup already. Why do we need to add one more?

[Spy Fox]

How is the fate of Pie and Reimold going to impact us in that regard?

At the most each would be a 2-3 win player and for Pie that's a pretty huge stretch IMO.

I don't see how say putting Reimold in AAA or on the bench to start the season and to trade Pie in ST is going to influence going for the most wins in 2012.

However, if our pitchers don't get the run support they need, and if Jones and Wieters don't take the next step, that will influence us heavily in years to come.

In '09 Pie was worth 1.4 wins in only 281 PA, so how is it a "huge stretch" for him to ever be worth 2-3 wins?

I agree with your point about run support for our pitchers development, and with confidence for Wieters and Jones. I'm just not convinced that Vlad/Thome would be enough better than Reimold/Pie in that regard to make it worth it to throw away a year of playing time for the two of them.

[hoosiers]

Thome seems to be a much better hitter right now than Vlad or Damon.