MacPhail on trade possibilities

[Frobby]

If anyone heard his interview last night on MASN you heard him discussing the jam in the outfield and that "unfortunately Pie is out of options". He was talking about Reimold and Pie duking it out for the final spot. He then went on to say something like- but you never know who might have needs in their outfield later on in spring training.

I am not usually one to jump on quotes but he sounded pretty interested in finding a suitor for Pie so that he could keep Reimold on the roster. He didn't mention needing that 4th OF to be able to handle CF.

If anyone else heard it or has a transcript of it, that would be great.

I have always thought that Markakis would suffice as a backup CF if it came to keeping a revitalized Reimold or a struggling Pie. Of course if Pie suddenly finds himself and Reimold doesn't (not likely in my opinion) then all bets are off.

Back to the OP, I did hear MacPhail last night, but I also thought he made it pretty clear that because Reimold had an option remaining, he could find himself in AAA because Pie is out of options.

I think the O's would be pretty reluctant to be moving Markakis to CF when Jones needs a day off. He's not slow, but he doesn't have CF speed and he hasn't played an inning anywhere but RF in 4+ years. And Reimold is no CF, even if he played there occasionally in the minors at the lower levels (so far as I can tell, he has played 1 game there in the last 4 years; and I'm not sure about 2005-06).

Bottom line, I think Pie is a necessary component to this team, even if he disappoints at the plate (which, by the way, is not a foregone conclusion). He has value as a backup CF; he has value as a defensive replacement in LF; he has value as a pinch runner; and he can start some games at any OF spot. Reimold would fit well if Vlad wasn't here, but under the current circumstances, I think he ends up in Norfolk until someone gets hurt.

[StottyByNature]

Nice to see Frobby's post bring this thread to a screeching, and deserved, halt.

Absolutely.

[bird watcher]

Back to the OP, I did hear MacPhail last night, but I also thought he made it pretty clear that because Reimold had an option remaining, he could find himself in AAA because Pie is out of options.

I think the O's would be pretty reluctant to be moving Markakis to CF when Jones needs a day off. He's not slow, but he doesn't have CF speed and he hasn't played an inning anywhere but RF in 4+ years. And Reimold is no CF, even if he played there occasionally in the minors at the lower levels (so far as I can tell, he has played 1 game there in the last 4 years; and I'm not sure about 2005-06).

Bottom line, I think Pie is a necessary component to this team, even if he disappoints at the plate (which, by the way, is not a foregone conclusion). He has value as a backup CF; he has value as a defensive replacement in LF; he has value as a pinch runner; and he can start some games at any OF spot. Reimold would fit well if Vlad wasn't here, but under the current circumstances, I think he ends up in Norfolk until someone gets hurt.

He did make what you have said here clear. How do you think they shake it out if Pie were traded which he also seemed to make clear that he was open to?

[flashjordnk]

Back to the OP, I did hear MacPhail last night, but I also thought he made it pretty clear that because Reimold had an option remaining, he could find himself in AAA because Pie is out of options.

I think the O's would be pretty reluctant to be moving Markakis to CF when Jones needs a day off. He's not slow, but he doesn't have CF speed and he hasn't played an inning anywhere but RF in 4+ years. And Reimold is no CF, even if he played there occasionally in the minors at the lower levels (so far as I can tell, he has played 1 game there in the last 4 years; and I'm not sure about 2005-06).

Bottom line, I think Pie is a necessary component to this team, even if he disappoints at the plate (which, by the way, is not a foregone conclusion). He has value as a backup CF; he has value as a defensive replacement in LF; he has value as a pinch runner; and he can start some games at any OF spot. Reimold would fit well if Vlad wasn't here, but under the current circumstances, I think he ends up in Norfolk until someone gets hurt.

Right so for a quick moment let's assume that Pie is having a terrible offensive year (yes not a foregone conclusion) or he gets hurt.

A). He's bad offensively. If we aren't carrying Reimold our bench is actually putrid. Fox can be spotty. Tatum should regress. Hopefully CI gets better, but how much better can he really get. Pie is slumping. Fox will be our only real threat as an offensive guy coming in.

B). He gets hurt. This seems way more likely to me. If we haven't tested the waters in our contingency plan, if we're forcing ourselves to carry a backup CF for backups sake then we HAVE to bring up Angle if that's the case. The we just have another bench of Angle, Itzuris, Tatum and Fox. Again, only one real bat off the bench.

I think a backup CF is as valuable as the next guy does. But we all know depth matters and not just for injuries but for days off etc.

Generally, if we're talking about carrying a viable backup CF. Why Pie over anyone else. And if we can get a low level pitching prospect with upside for him. I'm not sure why we don't pull the trigger on this. Pie has potential, but it's not oozing out of him anymore. With a guy like Angle waiting in the wings, doesn't his value to this team drop significantly. Does anyone here think Pie is legitimately our long term solution in LF at this point? If not...what's he staying for...to be back up CF? This seems pointless to me.

Keep him here to get him at bats. Or ship him off for someone that's going to be good. But don't keep him here because he's out of options and we need to spell Jones. That's a pretty poor use of a roster spot if you ask me.

Then again, dump Tatum, let Fox backup, and I don't see it as big of an issue. But if Tatum stays, I'm a bit worried about the in game depth of our offense from a bench standpoint.

[Gurgi]

No, the debate was asking if Jones has too much ego to listen to his coaches, as you so eloquently stated earlier. These quotes show that, indeed, he does not. His coaches are just fine with how he plays.

Reread what I said in this thread. I think you are mistaking me with someone else. I have not said he doesnt listen to his coaches.

I am the one who is saying Jones plays too shallow because of ego.

And I dont say things eloquently so you really must be confused. LOL.

Usually I write short. Stilted prose. No one would mistake me as eloquent.

Heartfelt? Maybe. Honest? Maybe. Eloquent? Hardly!

[Frobby]

Right so for a quick moment let's assume that Pie is having a terrible offensive year (yes not a foregone conclusion) or he gets hurt.

A). He's bad offensively. If we aren't carrying Reimold our bench is actually putrid. Fox can be spotty. Tatum should regress. Hopefully CI gets better, but how much better can he really get. Pie is slumping. Fox will be our only real threat as an offensive guy coming in.

B). He gets hurt. This seems way more likely to me. If we haven't tested the waters in our contingency plan, if we're forcing ourselves to carry a backup CF for backups sake then we HAVE to bring up Angle if that's the case. The we just have another bench of Angle, Itzuris, Tatum and Fox. Again, only one real bat off the bench.

I think a backup CF is as valuable as the next guy does. But we all know depth matters and not just for injuries but for days off etc.

Generally, if we're talking about carrying a viable backup CF. Why Pie over anyone else. And if we can get a low level pitching prospect with upside for him. I'm not sure why we don't pull the trigger on this. Pie has potential, but it's not oozing out of him anymore. With a guy like Angle waiting in the wings, doesn't his value to this team drop significantly. Does anyone here think Pie is legitimately our long term solution in LF at this point? If not...what's he staying for...to be back up CF? This seems pointless to me.

Keep him here to get him at bats. Or ship him off for someone that's going to be good. But don't keep him here because he's out of options and we need to spell Jones. That's a pretty poor use of a roster spot if you ask me.

Then again, dump Tatum, let Fox backup, and I don't see it as big of an issue. But if Tatum stays, I'm a bit worried about the in game depth of our offense from a bench standpoint.

I'm not one of these guys who is waiting for Pie to become the next Willie Mays, but I also think we should look at what he has done in his two years in Baltimore and not underrate it, either. He has a .739 OPS over his two seasons here, which IMO is not bad for a guy who is capable of backing up in CF. Last year, there were 56 players who had at least 25 PA as a CF. The median OPS for that group was .720, and most of the guys above that number were starters. So, I see Pie as being at least average for a 4th outfielder, maybe a little better, and still having some upside. If we traded him, we'd still need to carry someone who can play CF. Angle's not likely to hit as well as Pie, though he may do some other things better.

[Dipper9]

Nice to see Frobby's post bring this thread to a screeching, and deserved, halt.

Absolutely.

Funny that the two guys arguing so strongly for Jones in this thread both make these statements.

What I got out of the Frobby posted article was this...Buck is saying he's not concerned with what Jones (and Wieters) could be, but instead with what they are right now. That statement has nothing to do with how he feels Jones should play in center, only with how he is playing.

Irregardless, I am finished with this line of posting. Lets get back to trading Pie so that my boy Reimold has a spot on the team! :rofl:

[Sports Guy]

A better question is this.

What kind of player would it take for you to move Pie? How about Reimold? I think the organization is currently at a point where they would rather trade Pie than Reimold, but what kind of deal would it take to move either one of them?

This is a good question...and the simple answer is a player that we won't get.

For example, let's say a team was willing to offer us a decent young BP arm for either of these guys.

Unless that player has the arm and upside of a guy like Bard, I wouldn't trade either of these guys for him...In other words, say a team is willing to offer us JJ part 2...I pass on that deal but I think that is the best we could hope for.

[flashjordnk]

I'm not one of these guys who is waiting for Pie to become the next Willie Mays, but I also think we should look at what he has done in his two years in Baltimore and not underrate it, either. He has a .739 OPS over his two seasons here, which IMO is not bad for a guy who is capable of backing up in CF. Last year, there were 56 players who had at least 25 PA as a CF. The median OPS for that group was .720, and most of the guys above that number were starters. So, I see Pie as being at least average for a 4th outfielder, maybe a little better, and still having some upside. If we traded him, we'd still need to carry someone who can play CF. Angle's not likely to hit as well as Pie, though he may do some other things better.

Right...but that's giving a lot of weight to what happened two years and ago and not measuring the merit of last year either.

His K/BB ratio got worse last year. And if you take away a pretty torrid week in early July his OPS for the remaining 245 PA's he only put up a 679 OPS. Suggesting that adjustments were made and that he just wasn't as dynamic when that happened.

Angle walks more. Seems to have a better eye. Runs better. And Pie's defensive numbers aren't jumping out at anyone.

I guess my question is, how much of a drop off are we really getting if Angle is the guy instead of Pie. And if we can get a quality AA prospect, should Pie's potential at this point really be holding us up?

[wildcard]

Back to the OP, I did hear MacPhail last night, but I also thought he made it pretty clear that because Reimold had an option remaining, he could find himself in AAA because Pie is out of options.

I think the O's would be pretty reluctant to be moving Markakis to CF when Jones needs a day off. He's not slow, but he doesn't have CF speed and he hasn't played an inning anywhere but RF in 4+ years. And Reimold is no CF, even if he played there occasionally in the minors at the lower levels (so far as I can tell, he has played 1 game there in the last 4 years; and I'm not sure about 2005-06).

Bottom line, I think Pie is a necessary component to this team, even if he disappoints at the plate (which, by the way, is not a foregone conclusion). He has value as a backup CF; he has value as a defensive replacement in LF; he has value as a pinch runner; and he can start some games at any OF spot. Reimold would fit well if Vlad wasn't here, but under the current circumstances, I think he ends up in Norfolk until someone gets hurt.

Right now I think the odds of Reimold hitting his way on to the team are high. Scott said earlier in camp that the best thing for him was to not play more then 5 days a week in left. He wants two days at DH but that is another matter.

Vlad and Lee are both 35 or older and could probably use a couple days off a week also. Lee can backup 1B. Day games after night games and tough lefties are especially good spots for Reimold. Then there is the question of Lee's wrist. There are enough at bats to keep Reimold's timing down if Buck wants to do it

[Gurgi]

The best thing for Reimold would be if Lee starts the year on the DL and Scott is moved to first for that time.

If he can hit like crazy he can force the issue one way or the other.

[flashjordnk]

Right now I think the odds of Reimold hitting his way on to the team are high. Scott said earlier in camp that the best thing for him was to not play more then 5 days a week in left. He wants two days at DH but that is another matter.

Vlad and Lee are both 35 or older and could probably use a couple days off a week also. Lee can backup 1B. Day games after night games and tough lefties are especially good spots for Reimold. Then there is the question of Lee's wrist. There are enough at bats to keep Reimold's timing down if Buck wants to do it

To me this seems a lot more important than a few games off here or there for Jones. If Jones is going to need time off, I have no problem DLing letting him get fully healthy and bringing up Angle.

But let's say Jones misses 15 games in the scheme of things next year for no DL injuries. How valuable is that depth really? IE. if we put a below average defensive guy in CF for those games, what's our net loss in terms of wins, probably very low.

VS. having Reimold on the bench, spelling our older guys and being there to give off days as a hitter. I just don't trust Pie as a bench guy to be a hitter. And if all we have to fall back on is that he was average OPS for CF over 280 ABs I'm just not sure what that's worth. His OPS is driven by his slugging not his OBP and from a backup standpoint I'm just not buying that it's so valuable.

I think trading him at this point if there is something to be had for him is probably for the best. If we can get a High A or incoming AA position prospect for as has been described a league average CF that's going to be a much better long term solution for us. Our OF doesn't seem to have the kind of issues our MiLB system does (especially in terms of higher level hitting prospects). And I think AM needs to make a serious consideration about that.

[Scrat1]

Not at all comfortable with Markakis or Reimold in center field. I'd much prefer we keep Pie and send Reimold to AAA. He'll get his chance.

[bird watcher]

I'm not one of these guys who is waiting for Pie to become the next Willie Mays, but I also think we should look at what he has done in his two years in Baltimore and not underrate it, either. He has a .739 OPS over his two seasons here, which IMO is not bad for a guy who is capable of backing up in CF. Last year, there were 56 players who had at least 25 PA as a CF. The median OPS for that group was .720, and most of the guys above that number were starters. So, I see Pie as being at least average for a 4th outfielder, maybe a little better, and still having some upside. If we traded him, we'd still need to carry someone who can play CF. Angle's not likely to hit as well as Pie, though he may do some other things better.

Not if they plan on playing Jones darn near everyday and they are willing to put Markakis in there every once in a while. Of course that means Angle or Winn is your guy if Jones goes down to injury.

The other option is going with 12 pitchers and doing the YoYo roster movement with your relievers until something gives (injury, poor performance, trade opportunity). This would be tough as well though given the veterans in the bullpen who lack options (I think).

And as someone else mentioned, if Fox could be the back up catcher then this whole conversation is moot. With Caleb Joseph waiting in the wings they may be able to trade or let Tatum go.

[flashjordnk]

Not at all comfortable with Markakis or Reimold in center field. I'd much prefer we keep Pie and send Reimold to AAA. He'll get his chance.

But how many games will we lose if we do this? I know it's uncomfortable to think about a bit. But seriously...it's uncomfortable to watch Jones be out of position defensively.

What's the net loss of doing something like this in the number of games we expect Jones to miss.

I guess if someone could articulate it in wins and losses vs. it doesn't feel right to me, I might have a bit more understanding of why we NEED Pie on the roster.