Mora may drop his NTC!!!!!!!!!

[blueberryale77]

Huh?

Tejada=10 years

Hernandez=8 years

Roberts=6 years (that's a match)

Huff=7 years

Patterson=7 years

Gibbons=6 years (that's a match)

Baez=6 years (that's a match)

Walker=7 years

Bradford=9 years

Payton=9 years

Millar=9 years

Naturally Melvin could be off a bit in his estimate, but Payton and Millar are each 9 years vets, nearly the same as Mora.

You guys are forgetting someone very important...

PAUL BAKO (8 years but that's still pretty close and I don't think Mora likes him)

Also Bedard who is at 4+

[Elbren]

I pretty much completely disagree. I think he gets very underrated by most of the people on here for his defense. Yes, his bat slipped. But his glove, after a rough couple of months when he first made the switch, has been outstanding.

While a do agree that his defense is a bit underrated, I wouldn't exactly call it 'great'. Even if it was, it still doesn't make up for the fact that he's at a power position putting up a .750ish OPS. I just think it's a bit ballsy to call himself "one of the best in baseball" when he's playing on the same coast as ARod, Mike Lowell, David Wright, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Zimmerman.

[os1971]

I pretty much completely disagree. I think he gets very underrated by most of the people on here for his defense. Yes, his bat slipped. But his glove, after a rough couple of months when he first made the switch, has been outstanding.

Mora has a very average arm, poor ball handling ability, and is horrible at defending plays in on the grass. He does have decent hands. He misses to many balls he should be making.

What your looking at is the "Jeter syndrome", Enough highly acrobatic type plays to make you think he's a top defender when hes not.

Zone Rating has very limited utility for corner infielders. Plus-minus will put him in his rightful place..... an average defensive third baseman. While I agree with Blueberry that he probably had a better year this year than last year, I'd say he comes out no better than average in 2007.

[24fps]

It just gets better and better....

I'm trying to come up with the requsite outrage over Mora's little vent, but somehow, I'm coming up short. If this was Jay Payton talking, I'd just shrug it off, but because it's Melvin Mora, I want to know what brought him to this point.

I don't know - maybe deep down Mora's a jerk and we're only now seeing it, but my guess is the 2007 season was even more screwed up than we think. One day I'd love to know the full story of the Orioles' 2007 season, but until then I'll settle for wishing Melvin the best of luck.

I hope he gets his wish to play for a contender and I hope the Orioles get rid of as many pieces of this remarkably dysfunctional team this offseason as they can.

[Ofanslikepain]

Didnt Payton get upset at Mora for stealing 3rd base with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th in a game they were losing by more than one run? I seem to remember the idea was why was Mora stealing bases when it was distracting Payton. Stealing the base meant nothing to the game the Os had to get mulitple hits either way. I always assumed that they did not get along after that. Add that to the fact that Payton comes across as having a bad attitude I would think he is talking about Payton. It is amazing for such a highly paid team with such little results that some many of them could have such egos. They should be embrassed to be such a highly paid team and perform so poorly. He wants to see them bring in more talent well for the amount they are getting paid they should already have enough talent. With Mora's decline in production he should feel so bad for what he is getting paid that he should be willing to catch if the team asked him to. Nobody on this team has really earned the right to complain about being moved from position except Roberts. I don't care if it is done in the off season or the trade deadline but I really want to see these players moved. I am sick of rooting for players that I am liking less and less. I don't care for the returns except on Tejada, Bedard and to some extent Hernandez but the rest of them just get what you can for them and get them off this team. Millar, Payton, Mora, Gibbons (Dh him next year to see if he can bounce back some and if he does trade him at the deal line and eat as much of the contract as you have to, if he sucks then eat the contract at the end of the year). If you could move those 4 guys and carrying much about the prospects you get back for them you free up enough money to actually sign one good player instead of 4 overpaid ones.

[scOtt]

This second shift... always late to the party. :002_ssad: Anyways, without reading 4 pages, Mora sounds pissed! And it sounds to me that AM is willing to push him farther to make him willing to waive the NTC. This is a VERY good thing! I love Melvin, but he could be a valuable trade chip.

Man, AM seems to work every angle, all at once.

[wildcard]

I think we are starting to see what McPhail and Trembley are dealing with. The team has to pull in one direction to win. AM and Trems direction. Anyone that is in the way of that has to go.

I like that Mora expressed that he would give up his NTC under certain conditions. That gives McPhail more flexible in considering how to change the team.

I agree that Philly is a good match.

I think it is likely that Millar and Payton have assumed leadership positions in the clubhouse that belonged to Miggy and Melvin prior to 2006. That may feel disrespectful to both of them. Sounds like before the remodeling of the team is over all four of them may be gone.

When Mazzilli and Sam were with the O's the team needed leadership because both managers were passive types. Now with Trembley they have a vocal leader. When Earl and Dave Johnson were O's there was no question who led. They did. There were players who played roles but the manager led. I think we will see that kind of leadership from Trembley.

I agree with Cindy that this situation is sad. Melvin has done a lot for the team and the community. I respect him for that. However, the offensive production he points out is years old. He has been a shadow of that offensively in the past two years. Somehow is does not understand that effects his position on the team in terms of playing time.

Sports in particular and life in general is pretty cruel when it comes to respect. When you are on top people mostly respect you for what you have achieved. If you start to decline it is only the rarest of cases that the same level of respect stays. It stayed for Cal because of the level of success that he achieved. Melvin is seeing but not accepting that respect is hard to keep as age catches up to you. It is a mental adjustment that he has yet to make.

[longflyball]

Is this a surprise? I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that Melvin was a loser with a bad attitude. I've never liked the guy. Deal his ass.

[Rockbird]

I'm not going to be a hypocrite because I've always liked Mora and was part of the "Pay the man" crowd, but some of those quotes make me think he's lost his mind, which is sad (losing in a dysfunctional organization does that to you I guess). The real news is he sounds very willing to waive his NTC if we're rebuilding, which to him seems to be not signing big FA and making trades for younger players (Which is hopefully what we're doing), so in that sense, this is great news for the McPlan V3.0.

[Dipper9]

I think we are starting to see what McPhail and Trembley are dealing with. The team has to pull in one direction to win. AM and Trems direction. Anyone that is in the way of that has to go.

I like that Mora expressed that he would give up his NTC under certain conditions. That gives McPhail more flexible in considering how to change the team.

I agree that Philly is a good match.

I think it is likely that Millar and Payton have assumed leadership positions in the clubhouse that belonged to Miggy and Melvin prior to 2006. That may feel disrespectful to both of them. Sounds like before the remodeling of the team is over all four of them may be gone.

When Mazzilli and Sam were with the O's the team needed leadership because both managers were passive types. Now with Trembley they have a vocal leader. When Earl and Dave Johnson were O's there was no question who led. They did. There were players who played roles but the manager led. I think we will see that kind of leadership from Trembley.

I agree with Cindy that this situation is sad. Melvin has done a lot for the team and the community. I respect him for that. However, the offensive production he points out is years old. He has been a shadow of that offensively in the past two years. Somehow is does not understand that effects his position on the team in terms of playing time.

Sports in particular and life in general is pretty cruel when it comes to respect. When you are on top people mostly respect you for what you have achieved. If you start to decline it is only the rarest of cases that the same level of respect stays. It stayed for Cal because of the level of success that he achieved. Melvin is seeing but not accepting that respect is hard to keep as age catches up to you. It is a mental adjustment that he has yet to make.

There's one BIG difference. Cal didn't go shooting off at the mouth when he started sitting occassionally later in his career. Cal played for losing teams for a majority of his playing career, and yet he never criticized the manager or teammates...not ever! Mora had a ton of respect from the fans, and obviously a good majority of us were on the "Pay the Man" bandwagon. He could have just acccepted his role on the team and stayed a respected veteran. Instead, its stunts like this and comments like this that make a player lose that respect!

Also, kind of ironic that on the same day, two again veterans who are losing some skill, Mora and McNair, BOTH spout off to the Sun about their ability. Unfortunately for aging players, they are the last to realize that their skills are diminishing. McNair especially needs to be benched. Mora needs to happily become the super-sub we have been clamoring for him to be, while Moore and Huff get time at third. If MelMo doesn't like that, then maybe it is indeed time for him to give up that no trade clause. Otherwise, do what you're asked to do and be a team player!

And, oh, by the way Melvin, true team leaders don't go into the newspaper with sound bites about being a team leader! I'm just saying!

[droper]

There are a ton o' places good old Melvin can go...

Philly- They need a 3B

Minnesota - They need a 3B

Houston - they could shift Wiggington over to 2B

Pittsburgh - for Jack Wilson's contract

San Francisco- for Matt Morris's contract

Yankees - longshot since they'd rather pay for better but they can have him

Boston - same as the Yankees

Detroit - would he be an improvement on Inge?

LAA - they need a bigger bat but who knows

Obviosly we may be able to package him with Tejada and/or Hernandez and get even more back but thinking about that just gets too crazy

[DuffMan]

"I don't want to make it seem it was Moore's fault. This kid was hungry to play," Mora said. "But I've been busting my butt for seven years in the organization. I'm a two-time All-Star, I've won a Silver Slugger [award]. I don't deserve that. If I have to take that crap, I'd rather go somewhere else."

So in that one short little paragraph alone he mentions "I" seven times and yet he says he's about the team and is a team player.

Hey Mora I want you to waive your NTC so I can say good riddance to ya!

[wildcard]

I'd bet large amounts of money he is talking about some combination of Bedard, Roberts, and Gibbons.

You could be right, but if Melvin is talking about Bedard and Roberts he is on the losing end of that argument. They have both earned their spots on the O's. If he is talking about Gibbons he picked a guy who is just hoping not to get booed off the field like Raffy did.

[AgentOrange]

We just had a very long, drag out, 12 round bout about this "clubhouse divide" in another thread.

I would love to see everyone that was involved in that thread, contribute to this one.

I would love to see the reactions from them, maybe we are misunderstanding this...

[glenn__davis]

Mora used to be one of my favorite players. However, it was clear well before these quotes that he absolutely does not see himself as part of the problem here. He sees himself as a good player on a bad team.

We need to get guys in here who are all looking to be part of the solution and not seeing themselves as victims.