Guess what, it doesn't matter.

[Dipper9]

When the Orioles last had a playoff caliber rotation it included FAs (Key), and players that were traded for (Wells, Erickson) and really only 1 pitcher who was home grown. The fact is the AL East has produced arguably less than a dozen home grown starters in the last decade who could stay in and thrive in this division. And the Orioles think they can produce 4 at the same time. The fact is that until the Organization is done with this dogmatic "grow the arms, buy the bats" approach and starts pursuing other avenues of talent acquisition, then it really doesnt matter.

Great point. And implied in your post, is that until MacPhail goes (since this is HIS philosophy) we will be stuck in 5th place and the bottom of the league.

[DrungoHazewood]

When the Orioles last had a playoff caliber rotation it included FAs (Key), and players that were traded for (Wells, Erickson) and really only 1 pitcher who was home grown. The fact is the AL East has produced arguably less than a dozen home grown starters in the last decade who could stay in and thrive in this division. And the Orioles think they can produce 4 at the same time. The fact is that until the Organization is done with this dogmatic "grow the arms, buy the bats" approach and starts pursuing other avenues of talent acquisition, then it really doesnt matter.

Current homegrown starters in the AL East:

Buchholz, Lester

Nova, Hughes

Shields, Price, Hellickson, Davis, Niemann, Cobb

Drabek (partly developed by TOR/PHI), Cecil, Litsch, Romero

You can quibble over your definition of "home grown" or "could stay and thrive in this division" but each of the four AL East teams over .500 have at least two homegrown starters, and the Rays and Jays have nine or 10 between them.

Don't tell me the O's can't compete with homegrown starters. They just can't grow starters.

[Camden_yardbird]

Current homegrown starters in the AL East:

Buchholz, Lester

Nova, Hughes

Shields, Price, Hellickson, Davis, Niemann, Cobb

Drabek (partly developed by TOR/PHI), Cecil, Litsch, Romero

You can quibble over your definition of "home grown" or "could stay and thrive in this division" but each of the four AL East teams over .500 have at least two homegrown starters, and the Rays and Jays have nine or 10 between them.

Don't tell me the O's can't compete with homegrown starters. They just can't grow starters.

Of those you named I would include Lester, Price, Romero as the only ones who are home grown and have had sustained success. Shields was traded for as a relatively complete product. Buchholtz can certainly hack it but is injury prone, I'd call his story incomplete, as well as Hellickson and Nova who have been successful for less than a year.

I agree that the Orioles are bad at creating finished products but my point is still made by the guys you did not include: Beckett, C.C., Burnett, and guys like Garza, Shilling, and on and on who made-up playoff rotations and were acquired as FAs or traded for.

Finally, I would agree the Orioles could compete with home grown starters, but you can't expect any team in the AL East to be able to produce 3, not to mention an entire rotation, of those players.

[Going Underground]

You shouldn't be comparing him with other catchers, a normally weak offensive position.

You should be comparing him with the elite offensive players regardless of position, because that is what we need him to be.

Yea, his defense is good, but he's been nothing short of a colossal bust so far in his career.

Wieters had a good April. Since May 1st,he has 21 RBI's. He has three games driving in more then one run. Three games with two RBI's. In July he has 4 RBI's. Three on solo homers. The O's catcher's have 42 RBI's, which is about 14th in the majors. Wieters is not an offensive force. People also were saying at the start of the season Wieters calls a good game. Flanny and Buck still say this. I hate to see what the O's pitching would be if he called a bad game. I guess we can blame Jake Fox for ruining the O's pitching.:laughlol: His RBI's will be about the same as last year. Walks might be down from the prior year.

[PaulFolk]

Of those you named I would include Lester, Price, Romero as the only ones who are home grown and have had sustained success. Shields was traded for as a relatively complete product. Buchholtz can certainly hack it but is injury prone, I'd call his story incomplete, as well as Hellickson and Nova who have been successful for less than a year.

Shields has never been traded. He was drafted and developed by the Rays. Are you confusing him with Garza?

Shields certainly belongs on that list.

[Guest]

That's taking it too far. He's been extremely disappointing relative to expectations, but he's far from a "bust."

considering what the Orioles NEED, he is a bust.

[gamer]

Cerano,,,

What would Wieters' numbers have to be in order to not be a bust.

[SilentJames]

Shields has never been traded. He was drafted and developed by the Rays. Are you confusing him with Garza?

Shields certainly belongs on that list.

Indeed, something that I noticed about that list though - it shows how hard it is to develop pitchers and what an aberration the Rays really are.

Virtually everyone on that list outside of Price, Romero, Lester and to a lesser extent Shields and David have had some kind of setback in their careers.

Think about it:

Hughes has been bussed around

Buccholz is the same

Nova has been unremarkable, though solid

Drabek, Litsch, Cecil have all underperformed

[SilentJames]

Cerano,,,

What would Wieters' numbers have to be in order to not be a bust.

He would need to not be one of the top players at his position. Currently he is.

He becomes a "bust" when he is below average.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Cerano,,,

What would Wieters' numbers have to be in order to not be a bust.

I dunno, I guess asking for an OPS over .800 for the guy who was supposed to be an offensive beast is too much.

His OPS is .721 right now, not even close. I don't care if that's good for a catcher. He was supposed to be a behemoth and right now he's a colossal bust.

Sorry.

[Pedro Cerrano]

He would need to not be one of the top players at his position. Currently he is.

He becomes a "bust" when he is below average.

Only if you view this team with orange sunglasses on.

How anyone can consider Wieters anything but a bust right now is beyond me. So you're telling me if they moved him to 1B tomorrow he'd suddenly become a bust overnight?

[SilentJames]

Only if you view this team with orange sunglasses on.

How anyone can consider Wieters anything but a bust right now is beyond me. So you're telling me if they moved him to 1B tomorrow he'd suddenly become a bust overnight?

Fine dude, whatever.

[El Gordo]

Indeed, something that I noticed about that list though - it shows how hard it is to develop pitchers and what an aberration the Rays really are.

Virtually everyone on that list outside of Price, Romero, Lester and to a lesser extent Shields and David have had some kind of setback in their careers.

Think about it:

Hughes has been bussed around

Buccholz is the same

Nova has been unremarkable, though solid

Drabek, Litsch, Cecil have all underperformed

Good point. Bucholz and Lester struggled at first, Bucholz for several seasons, and Hughes as well. Maybe we shouldn't abandon all hope for Matusz, Britton, Arrieta, and Tillman.

[DrungoHazewood]

Indeed, something that I noticed about that list though - it shows how hard it is to develop pitchers and what an aberration the Rays really are.

Virtually everyone on that list outside of Price, Romero, Lester and to a lesser extent Shields and David have had some kind of setback in their careers.

Think about it:

Hughes has been bussed around

Buccholz is the same

Nova has been unremarkable, though solid

Drabek, Litsch, Cecil have all underperformed

And yet homegrown talent still makes up at least half of the starting pitchers among over .500 teams in the AL East.

[El Gordo]

Only if you view this team with orange sunglasses on.

How anyone can consider Wieters anything but a bust right now is beyond me. So you're telling me if they moved him to 1B tomorrow he'd suddenly become a bust overnight?

A C has the highest positional value, and a 1B has the lowest. Wieters has the 4th highest WAR among MLB catchers. His value to the team is roughly equivalent to Paul Konerko's to the Chisox. That is a 0 UZR 1B with 24 HR, 49 RBI, .935 OPS. Wieters doesn't have to improve his hitting too much, maybe to about a .780 OPS, to be one of the most valuable players in MLB.