BA: Adam Jones 2nd best defensive OF in the AL

[wildcard]

I guess the AL Managers do not believe the junk that Fangraphs is spreading either.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2011/08/wieters-and-jones-make-baseball-americas-best-tools-list.html

[crissfan172]

Good news: Jones is going to win another Gold Glove.

Bad news: AL managers are blind.

[wildcard]

Good news: Jones is going to win another Gold Glove.

Bad news: AL managers are blind.

I will take the AL Managers judgement over Fangraphs everytime.

[MrOrange82]

I will take the AL Managers judgement over Fansgraph everytime.

I understand the above sentiment, but I don't think it's fair to take it that far.

Bottom line: defensive metrics are flawed and subjective, as has been discussed many times on the board. What the managers' opinions prove by their significant divergence from the conclusions reached by fangraphs-followers is that it's unjustified to reach any concrete conclusions based on statements from a particular source, and it would be better to take all sources into account when reaching one's own conclusions.

Personally, I've seen Adam make some bad reads, and I've seen him make some fantastic plays (and not plays that simply look great because his athleticism made up for a poor start). I think he's a very good CFer, and a substantial asset to the Orioles.

[Catch 8]

Second-best CF or second-best 2011 performance?

[Mizerooskie]

Like most aspects of the game, Adam Jones' defensive ability lies somewhere between what the stats (fangraphs) say and what scouting reports (managers) say.

That said, I'll take any positives associated with the Orioles. Here's to another GG for Adam.

[wildcard]

I understand the above sentiment, but I don't think it's fair to take it that far.

Bottom line: defensive metrics are flawed and subjective, as has been discussed many times on the board. What the managers' opinions prove by their significant divergence from the conclusions reached by fangraphs-followers is that it's unjustified to reach any concrete conclusions based on statements from a particular source, and it would be better to take all sources into account when reaching one's own conclusions.

Personally, I've seen Adam make some bad reads, and I've seen him make some fantastic plays (and not plays that simply look great because his athleticism made up for a poor start). I think he's a very good CFer, and a substantial asset to the Orioles.

Just another example of Fangraphs being not just wrong but incredibly wrong.

Fangraphs has Jones as a -11. Ugh. Just stupid.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=y&type=1&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

[ccbird]

I'm not a defensive stats guy. Jones is not the 2nd best defensive OF in the American League.

[MrOrange82]

I'm not a defensive stats guy. Jones is not the 2nd best defensive OF in the American League.

Maybe not, but he's not third-to-worst, either. Just look at the names at the bottom of that list. Rajai Davis...Granderson...Ichiro as the worst OFer in baseball? I know he's old, but c'mon.

EDIT: apologies...I guess Ichiro is just the worst in the AL...(third worst in all of baseball).

[Frobby]

Fascinating. I don't buy into UZR and +/- completely, but I sure don't see Jones as being anywhere close to the top of the list of best defensive OF in the league.

[Jimbo81]

Is how bad the pitching staff added to the equation? I honestly believe our guys deserve a medal for dealing with this staff, imo.

[El Gordo]

TZ -17, UZR -11, FB -7RS, AL managers: AJ #2 in AL D OF. Which one is not like the other?

[SrMeowMeow]

Ah, conventional wisdom in baseball! You've never been wrong before!

[GoldGlove21]

I guess the AL Managers do not believe the junk that Fangraphs is spreading either.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2011/08/wieters-and-jones-make-baseball-americas-best-tools-list.html

I mentioned the eyeball test before regarding Jones. He looks every bit the part of an above average fielder. Defensive metrics are still kind of a joke IMO and I said it numerous times, many baseball people take them with a grain of salt. If the AL Managers think Jones is the 2nd best defensive outfielder in the AL than in what regard is he held when you consider his current offensive abilities and upside?

That is the reason why the Phillies and Braves called the Orioles first. They kind of settled for the guys they obtained when compared to Jones. If the Orioles were to trade Jones in the offseason he would bring in a large haul of prospects IMO. I am talking real prospects too, not the package we got for Tejada.

[GoldGlove21]

TZ -17, UZR -11, FB -7RS, AL managers: AJ #2 in AL D OF. Which one is not like the other?

One of them is based off of random numbers and the other is based on actually watching a guy play. All of this Adam Jones is below average defensively talk is pretty funny IMO. Is he Ken Griffey Jr? No. I think he could be like Torii Hunter. Besides, if someone were to look at the entire package a player brought to the table than Adam Jones would be really close to elite in terms of a center fielder IMO. When this guy becomes a free agent I think we are really going to see how high the demand will be for his services. Jones might be really good right now. He might be great in 2-3 years when he hits his prime.

I know Granderson got a lot of love early, but Jacoby Ellsbury is having the best season on any CF in the AL. He has been worth 5.7 WAR to Granderson's 5.2 and Adam Jones 3.0. Does anyone know how runs scored effects WAR? I hope it doesn't effect it at all and a stat like OBP trumps runs scored since runs scored is usually tied to who is hitting behind you and how they perform. From glancing around and again the eyeball test, I am really impressed with Ellsbury's fielding. Jones is right there with Granderson and he is not considered to be a below average fielder.