Epstein's presser...how it relates to the Orioles

[Sports Guy]

He spoke like a guy with full authority and knowledge of what needed to be done. I'm incredibly jealous of the Cubs organization right now.

Right...and I highly doubt a new GM will come here, tell a very impatient fan base(much like the cubs are) that it will take time and we basically have to re-do everything.

Frobby and Mweb are claiming you hear that from every GM...i disagree with that.

[VeveJones007]

Epstein wouldn't have signed on for that, in any event. I don't think ownership necessarily wants him to sell off everyone and junk what they have. But I think it is pretty out there to think ownership brought him in expecting to compete for a WS next year. From what I have heard he and Mr. Ricketts are very much on the same page as to what needs to be done -- and Ricketts was pleased with the general plan that Epstein laid out.

That's not surprising. In Ricketts' opening presser, he singled out the Red Sox as the model that the Cubs would pursue.

In terms of free agents, a lot of people are still putting the cart in front of the horse regarding the Cubs and signing free agents this offseason. They HAVE to get funding for the changes to Wrigley and Wrigleyville. If they go out and commit $175 million to Fielder, the state legislature is going to say "If you can afford that, you can afford to pay the upgrades yourself."

[VeveJones007]

Right...and I highly doubt a new GM will come here, tell a very impatient fan base(much like the cubs are) that it will take time and we basically have to re-do everything.

Frobby and Mweb are claiming you hear that from every GM...i disagree with that.

There are certain things he said that every new GM says (i.e. - build up the baseball infrastructure, the farm system, scouting, the draft), but there were definitely differences. I don't know if everyone heard the actual presser, but you could read between the lines that he was saying that it was going to be a drastic overhaul of the entire baseball operation.

He spoke like a guy given a blank check and full empowerment from his employer. Not many Presidents of Baseball Operations are that confident and self-assured.

[DrungoHazewood]

The drat has changed slightly, as has the development of amateur players (including the way prospects are handled in the DR and latin america, the proliferation of travel ball, showcases, college summer leagues, etc.). Implementation of video analysis and, probably more importantly the effect technology has had on information sharing, databasing and player analysis. Front offices are generally a little larger with more specialty positions. Potential employees and contributors come from a broader background, so astute front offices will be looking in a lot of areas for information, and sometimes people, that can be of help in their organization. While still and old boys' club, I believe more forward thinking organizations understand that you don't have to have been a former player, or someone with professional baseball experience, to be able to offer worthwhile contributions.

Based on what is available to the public, I believe Mr. MacPhail understood a lot of these things -- certainly as much or more than I do. But I do believe he either did not know the best way to make use of them, or was not given the opportunity to make use of them, for whatever reason. I think some of the above still fall into a category that many old school front office folk simply don't believe have value.

That's kind of what I was thinking, but I obviously have less of an insider's perspective than you do.

I have this probably somewhat simplistic vision in my head. In the 1800s baseball was almost completely making things up as they went. Even basic playing rules changed all the time, scouts didn't exist, no real minor leagues, the GM/owner/manager/player roles were all muddled together, and you could count the number of outsiders doing real thinking on the game on your fingers, the business side was simplistic and autocratic. Then we have what you described today, with almost every aspect of baseball being more professional, less ad hoc, more rigorously defensible. Everything in the middle, that 100+ years, is somewhere on the continuum between the extremes, but with most of the big change and progress coming in the last 30-40 years. And with individual organizations varying wildly in how close to state-of-the-art they are.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Really? Ownership thinks that Epstein will take over a 71 team and be competitive overnight?

A 71 team is much easier to turnaround in the NL Central than in the AL East and being competetive doesn't mean you are the favorite to win the World Series.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Right...and I highly doubt a new GM will come here, tell a very impatient fan base(much like the cubs are) that it will take time and we basically have to re-do everything.

Frobby and Mweb are claiming you hear that from every GM...i disagree with that.

Well, the Cubs really do need to redo everything. Horrible manager, horrible contracts, depleted MiL. They might actually be the one club I'd rather not be up until now. I'd be surprised to hear the new GM say we're starting over, mostly because we don't need too. Like him or not AM did not hurt this club, I'm not saying he helped, but he didn't do anything to cripple us for years to come. I expect the new GM to come in, talk about the core, building on what we have, and improving the international market. Not discount everything done over the past 3 years as if we've been going about it all wrong.

The Cubs have had a horrible philosophy, the O's have had horrible execution. How you fix those things are completely different.

[Stotle]

That's not surprising. In Ricketts' opening presser, he singled out the Red Sox as the model that the Cubs would pursue.

In terms of free agents, a lot of people are still putting the cart in front of the horse regarding the Cubs and signing free agents this offseason. They HAVE to get funding for the changes to Wrigley and Wrigleyville. If they go out and commit $175 million to Fielder, the state legislature is going to say "If you can afford that, you can afford to pay the upgrades yourself."

I think the Cubs are less likely to go big this offseason with Epstein at the top. I would not be surprised if they landed some big free agents next winter.

[VeveJones007]

I think the Cubs are less likely to go big this offseason with Epstein at the top. I would not be surprised if they landed some big free agents next winter.

Fully agreed. They'll get the bonds later this winter and then sign some guys for 2013.

[Stotle]

A 71 team is much easier to turnaround in the NL Central than in the AL East and being competetive doesn't mean you are the favorite to win the World Series.

Who is talking about the AL East or World Series. You said ownership expects Epstein to make the Cubs competitive starting next year. Can you explain that statement with specificity or not?

My contention was that the expectation for 2012 is for Epstein to make good progress in setting the Cubs down the right path. That might mean a competitive team, or it might mean that you have a borderline .500 club with big holes up top, but much improvement in other areas, such as scouting/development, pro player analysis, institutional instruction, etc.

While I'm sure ownership doesn't want a disaster on the field, I find it highly dubious that they will be grading Epstein on the Cubs record next year, barring some crazy travesty of a season.

[CA-ORIOLE]

If they just wanted someone to execute the Trea plan, sign a ton of free agents, sell off everything of value to win now, why Theo? Why go to all that effort? Why hire the guy whose biggest strengths are building a top-to-bottom organization? Why not just get some random guy for $6.35 and hand him a copy of the Hardball Times Annual and a checkbook?

A. It's not the Trea plan (although it could be considered an offshoot in some ways).

B. An offshoot of the Trea plan is more practical in the Cubs case. In our case, it's not.

I'm sure Theo will be looking to make some immediate/impact moves on the ML roster and offload some of those contracts (particulalry Zambrano and Soriano etc.) Good luck to him on that. I'm sure he'll be looking at making trades and other moves to improve the organizational structure and culture. I'm also sure he'll be looking at FA acquisitions, probably midtier/stop gap players to try and keep the team competetive. For supposedly being so "brutally honest" with the fans, he doesn't state, suggest or imply he's going to "tear down" the team or that the team won't be comptetive. Probably for good reason. I see the the process as being more deliberate than others seam to think it will be.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Who is talking about the AL East or World Series. You said ownership expects Epstein to make the Cubs competitive starting next year. Can you explain that statement with specificity or not?

Fielding a ML team with a reasonable expectation to finish over .500 and a marginal chance to win the division or take the wildcard.

[crawjo]

One of the biggest disappointments to following the Orioles the last several years is that I have never gotten the sense that the organization highly values OBP, or working deep into counts. This to me is the first building block in creating a very good offense, and the Orioles seem to consistently ignore it, not only in FA acquisitions, but also in how they scout, sign, and develop players within the system.

[Stotle]

A. It's not the Trea plan (although it could be considered an offshoot in some ways).

B. An offshoot of the Trea plan is more practical in the Cubs case. In our case, it's not.

I'm sure Theo will be looking to make some immediate/impact moves on the ML roster and offload some of those contracts (particulalry Zambrano and Soriano etc.) Good luck to him on that. I'm sure he'll be looking at making trades and other moves to improve the organizational structure and culture. I'm also sure he'll be looking at FA acquisitions, probably midtier/stop gap players to try and keep the team competetive. For supposedly being so "brutally honest" with the fans, he doesn't state, suggest or imply he's going to "tear down" the team or that the team won't be comptetive. Probably for good reason. I see the the process as being more deliberate than others seam to think it will be.

Fielding a ML team with a reasonable expectation to finish over .500 and a marginal chance to win the division or take the wildcard.

He stated that implementing the new "Cubs Way" will be a lot of work, he consistently referred to "when we attain sustained success" and the actions he stated as leading to that suscess included fringe prospects being willing to put in the work to become a future ML contributor, international scouts taking the time to really get to know a 17-year prospect and helping his transition to ball in the States, an area scout driving an extra six miles to get a last look at an amateur prospect before the draft, ML coachign staff being more prepared than the coaching staff across the field, etc. It sounds to me like a systemic change, and while that doesn't mean tearing everything down it certainly means addressing and making changes at every level.

He also noted, "We're going to have to grind our way to the top, and we must do so together." When I think of grinding my way somewhere, immediate expectation of success is not usually what I think of.

[Frobby]

There are certain things he said that every new GM says (i.e. - build up the baseball infrastructure, the farm system, scouting, the draft), but there were definitely differences. I don't know if everyone heard the actual presser, but you could read between the lines that he was saying that it was going to be a drastic overhaul of the entire baseball operation.

He spoke like a guy given a blank check and full empowerment from his employer. Not many Presidents of Baseball Operations are that confident and self-assured.

Yes, the bolded part is what I meant. I did not hear the actual presser.

FWIW, Andy MacPhail appears very confident and self-assured when he speaks. He always came off like a guy with a plan, who had authority to do what he wanted. So, I don't put too much stock in appearances. Certainly Theo has instant credibility coming off a mostly successful run in Boston.

[CA-ORIOLE]

He stated that implementing the new "Cubs Way" will be a lot of work, he consistently referred to "when we attain sustained success" and the actions he stated as leading to that suscess included fringe prospects being willing to put in the work to become a future ML contributor, international scouts taking the time to really get to know a 17-year prospect and helping his transition to ball in the States, an area scout driving an extra six miles to get a last look at an amateur prospect before the draft, ML coachign staff being more prepared than the coaching staff across the field, etc. It sounds to me like a systemic change, and while that doesn't mean tearing everything down it certainly means addressing and making changes at every level.

He also noted, "We're going to have to grind our way to the top, and we must do so together." When I think of grinding my way somewhere, immediate expectation of success is not usually what I think of.

It sounds to me like a systemic change

,

It sure does.

and while that doesn't mean tearing everything down .

It doesn't.

it certainly means addressing and making changes at every level

I'm sure it will. That doesn't preclude fielding a competitive team in the short term.