Do you approve of DD's first trade?

[DrungoHazewood]

That's Drungo's logic, not mine.

Oh no it's not. That's your tortured misinterpretation of my logic.

[OrioleMagic]

Why does anyone have to answer "yes"? It was a judgement call made by the people who are paid to make that jdugement call. They obviously chose to make this trade instead of waiting... Yes, we fans can second guess the front office all we want, but let's do it over something a little more clear than this.

If Teagarden blossoms, we might have to give up a good prospect as the PTBNL. If he never makes it past average backup catcher, we might have to give up one of the worst prospects in our system. Either way, the FO saw something they liked at a price they were willing to pay, so they made the decision to do it.

EDIT: This is in response to the recent post by GoGoPower. For some odd reason the quote is not translating to the new post when clicking "reply with quote". Obviously it is for everyone else. Must be this computer.

[DrungoHazewood]

Drungo made the point that this deal will have no impact on the future of the club.

My point is that neither did the Atkins signing but it didn't stop all of us from complaining about and criticizing it.

And of course I feel he effected the future...but not because of Atkins himself..because it was yet another stupid move, in a long line of stupid moves, made by people who shouldn't have been making those types of decisions for this club and for this club needs to go.

Again, you seem to lack context. The $30M or $40M that Mora cost the Orioles was a fairly large impact on the future of the team. The $5M Atkins signing was a much smaller impact, but still a decent amount of money. Theprojected future value they lost in the Teagarden deal was almost certainly an order of magnitude smaller than Atkins, and actually has some chance of being a positive, since Henry is unlikely to have any impact in the majors at all.

I think it's entirely reasonable to treat these transactions on different scales, and different impacts.

[Frobby]

Well, he appeared in 44 games, not 162 and we weren't really going to be good anyway. His -1 WAR didn't really change anything about that season.

You can say this about literally any player on this team. You could take the worst player we had, replace him with the best player at his position, and we still would have come in last in the AL East by a pretty sizable margin.

So, does that mean nobody matters? Not as I see it. The way I look at it, you try to upgrade every place you can, in a way that fits the budget and makes long-term sense. And I consider Teagarden a significant upgrade at back-up C who fits those criteria.

[Sports Guy]

Again, you seem to lack context. The $30M or $40M that Mora cost the Orioles was a fairly large impact on the future of the team. The $5M Atkins signing was a much smaller impact, but still a decent amount of money. Theprojected future value they lost in the Teagarden deal was almost certainly an order of magnitude smaller than Atkins, and actually has some chance of being a positive, since Henry is unlikely to have any impact in the majors at all.

I think it's entirely reasonable to treat these transactions on different scales, and different impacts.

How did spending the money on Atkins effect the long term future? They weren't going to put it back into the organization, we know that...So, how did it hurt it?

You wanted the team to give a chance to players like Knott and House...How did NOT playing them hurt our future?

[Sports Guy]

It lacks context, it ignores the magnitude of the deal. Your arguments are fine, they aren't inconsistent, they make sense. But who cares? They traded the 700th-best prospect in baseball for a halfway decent backup catcher. This has no discernable impact on the Orioles future.

Oh no it's not. That's your tortured misinterpretation of my logic.

So tell me, even perhaps while quoting Bill James, how I am supposed to interpret this?

Just let me know what I am allowed to talk about? I want to make sure it suits what you want.

[GoGoPower]

Why does anyone have to answer "yes"? It was a judgement call made by the people who are paid to make that jdugement call. They obviously chose to make this trade instead of waiting... Yes, we fans can second guess the front office all we want, but let's do it over something a little more clear than this.

Because if your answer to those questions is "no", you're acknowledging that the trade was a poor use of resources for the Orioles, which makes it a bad trade.

Personally I think that Teagarden isn't any better or more interesting than someone like John Hester, and I think that Randy Henry and whoever the PTBNL is probably could have gotten the Orioles a player like Seth Smith or Jesus Guzman instead - i.e. a player that can contribute at the MLB level as a starter who has some limitations/flaws but is a good bet to be worth about 2-3 WAR per season.

The Orioles overpaid for a player that they already had a few of who doesn't play a very valuable role, and the players they gave up could have been used to obtain something better. That's pretty much the definition of a horrible trade to me.

If Teagarden blossoms, we might have to give up a good prospect as the PTBNL. If he never makes it past average backup catcher, we might have to give up one of the worst prospects in our system. Either way, the FO saw something they liked at a price they were willing to pay, so they made the decision to do it.

Where are you getting the idea that who the PTBNL is depends on what Teagarden does in the future? I've never heard of a trade where the PTBNL changes based on how well the player that was traded for performs. Has something like this ever happened?

[OrioleMagic]

If you say no. You clearly think you know better than the Orioles FO. That's your choice.

Regarding the PTBNL... I may be completely wrong. I just thought the reason a PTBNL was not named, was because the player agreed upon was ineligible to be traded or it was going to be player A or player B depending on the success of the player traded for (in this case Teagarden). I am just a fan who may be very wrong about what is required to use the PTBNL label.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_to_be_named_later This link is the best I could find.

[Sports Guy]

If you say no. You clearly think you know better than the Orioles FO. That's your choice.

Regarding the PTBNL... I may be completely wrong. I just thought the reason a PTBNL was not named, was because the player agreed upon was ineligible to be traded or it was going to be player A or player B depending on the success of the player traded for (in this case Teagarden). I am just a fan who may be very wrong about what is required to use the PTBNL label.

So, that means if we don't agree with every move, we think we are better than they are?

Really?

Do you allow everyone to dictate to you how you should think and feel in life?

[Frobby]

So, that means if we don't agree with every move, we think we are better than they are?

Really?

Do you allow everyone to dictate to you how you should think and feel in life?

Look, this boils down to what you think Teagarden and Henry are, or are likely to become.

Trade a mediocre relief prospect for a very good back-up catcher? Good move.

Trade a very good relief prospect for a mediocre back-up catcher? Bad move.

To me this is about that simple. Now, I feel Teagarden is likely to be a very good back-up catcher for us. I don't think of Henry as a "mediocre" prospect, but I think his chances of being a very good relief pitcher are less likely than Teagarden's chances of being a very good back-up catcher. That is why I consider this a decent move -- not a great one, but reasonable enough that I'm willing to see how it comes out.

[OrioleMagic]

I said "know better" not "are better". We've had this conversation years ago. They are professionals and we are fans. I suspect if you were as good at evaluating baseball talent as you think you are, you wouldn't be the great business owner you are. (I assess "great" based on posts I've seen in other forums.)

[GoGoPower]

If you say no. You clearly think you know better than the Orioles FO. That's your choice.

This seems pretty condescending and uncalled for to me. I'm just expressing my opinions. If people can't disagree with any decision the Orioles make because they're just fans this forum might as well shut down...

[baltfan]

This is more than AM gave up for Hardy. I don't understand why the price was this high.

[DrungoHazewood]

This is more than AM gave up for Hardy. I don't understand why the price was this high.

Not every trade is a total evisceration of your opponent. Some are just trading a random guy you don't really need for a random guy some other team doesn't really need.

[OrioleMagic]

This seems pretty condescending and uncalled for to me. I'm just expressing my opinions. If people can't disagree with any decision the Orioles make because they're just fans this forum might as well shut down...

I did not mean to sound condescending. I apologize. I think the general tone of this thread influenced my response to you.