Marlins sign Mark Buehrle and the Os *crickets*

[crawjo]

Are we going to have a thread like this every time another team lays out some money for a free agent? Duquette made it clear his first day on the job that he wasn't likely to go after any of the top-priced free agents, so just deal with it already!

Thank you. People don't seem to get that the Marlins are in a very different position than the Orioles. Between Hanley Ramirez, Mike Stanton, Josh Johnson and Anibal Sanchez, among others, the Marlins have several pieces to build around. The Orioles do not.

[maudibjr]

Signing Burhle for that amount is just stupid, no matter who paying it.

[DrungoHazewood]

The only thing I'll say on the matter is that several posters guffawed at the idea that a team could cut down on payroll and actually save that money to be spent later. I suggested it and was met with "OBVIOUSLY the extra money would just go to ownership and the team never sees it again."

Well, like it or LOVE it, the Marlins did just that. Yeah, they'll likely be dumping payroll again when Josh Johnson and Hanley Ramirez get ready to hit free agency. But they are setting themselves up for a 2 or 3 year run at their third world series in 15 years.

I know I said that, but I didn't say "a team" I said "the Orioles".

[BilboBaggins]

Thank you. People don't seem to get that the Marlins are in a very different position than the Orioles. Between Hanley Ramirez, Mike Stanton, Josh Johnson and Anibal Sanchez, among others, the Marlins have several pieces to build around. The Orioles do not.

I thought the conventional wisdom was that MacPhail got us those pieces with his trades of Tejada and Bedard?

[Austin]

I thought the conventional wisdom was that MacPhail got us those pieces with his trades of Tejada and Bedard?

Where have you heard this "conventional wisdom"? If you think Adam Jones and Luke Scott are comparable to Hanley, Stanton, Johnson, and Sanchez then I don't know what to tell you. Those trades were four years ago.

[BilboBaggins]

Where have you heard this "conventional wisdom"? If you think Adam Jones and Luke Scott are comparable to Hanley, Stanton, Johnson, and Sanchez then I don't know what to tell you. Those trades were four years ago.

Which is kind of my point.

With today's news of Puljols to the Angels and our overwhelming signing of Dana Eveland and the Rule V pick Ryan Flaherty, we should be printing playoff tickets in no time.

:wedge:

[BilboBaggins]

And now CJ Wilson to the Angels.

Seriously. THAT is what teams who want to win do in the off season.

[Austin]

Which is kind of my point.

With today's news of Puljols to the Angels and our overwhelming signing of Dana Eveland and the Rule V pick Ryan Flaherty, we should be printing playoff tickets in no time.

:wedge:

So your point was that we don't actually have a solid core of players to build around? I have to say, that doesn't inspire me to get behind big free agent signings.

[BilboBaggins]

So your point was that we don't actually have a solid core of players to build around? I have to say, that doesn't inspire me to get behind big free agent signings.

The talk around here presupposes that we had a solid core. The talk around here (especially during last year's off season) was that we needed the young arms to suddenly become superstars all at the same time and we would become contenders.

What we should have done last year, and what we should do now (but we won't), is sign quality free agents to complement the core. We can't get better until we get better players. It's really that simple. We're still saying that it's okay not to sign free agents and it doesn't make any sense. We're not getting better at all.

Marlins have gotten better, Angels have gotten better. On the OH, we have a 16-page thread about a nobody MiL pitcher from the Dodgers.

Sad.

[GoldGlove21]

And now CJ Wilson to the Angels.

Seriously. THAT is what teams who want to win do in the off season.

True, but the Marlins signed Beuhrle for 4/$58M and Wilson signed for 5/$77.5M. No offense to the Marlins, but you should have pushed harder for CJ Wilson IMO.

[Can_of_corn]

True, but the Marlins signed Beuhrle for 4/$58M and Wilson signed for 5/$77.5M. No offense to the Marlins, but you should have pushed harder for CJ Wilson IMO.

Word from Wilson is that the Marlins' offer was close to 100 million.

[DrungoHazewood]

And now CJ Wilson to the Angels.

Seriously. THAT is what teams who want to win do in the off season.

You do realize that the 2011 Orioles plus Pujols and Wilson gives you a 80-ish win team with a $100M+ payroll, right? Nothing like having a payroll where you're losing money, but still have a requirement for 10-15 wins to get to the playoffs.

[BilboBaggins]

You do realize that the 2011 Orioles plus Pujols and Wilson gives you a 80-ish win team with a $100M+ payroll, right? Nothing like having a payroll where you're losing money, but still have a requirement for 10-15 wins to get to the playoffs.

You must believe several things:

1) The addition of Puljols would do nothing for attendance figures.

2) Our pitchers would continue to regress.

3) Our core players would regress dramatically.

4) $100MM payroll would bankrupt Angelos.

[DrungoHazewood]

You must believe several things:

1) The addition of Puljols would do nothing for attendance figures.

2) Our pitchers would continue to regress.

3) Our core players would regress dramatically.

4) $100MM payroll would bankrupt Angelos.

I'm not sure where you get any of that. Pujols would probably bump attendance up a couple thousand fans a game, maybe enough to offset a fraction of his salary. The O's pitchers might not regress, but there's certainly no guarantee they'll get significantly better, either. The core need not regress - it's the same core that won 69 games last year. $100M payroll won't bankrupt Angelos, but it's probably above the area where the team can reliably break even. It's no coincidence that the O's payroll has stayed mostly in the $75-90M range for years as attendance has fallen and other revenue sources have probably counterbalanced that.

In any case, the O's currently have about $68M in commitments for 2012. Pujols would have cost about $30M a year, and Wilson around $20M. That's not $100M, that's $118M, or about $25M more than any O's payroll, ever. And you still have multiple holes on the roster and absolutely no room to fix it with money.

What I do believe is that you don't turn a team that finished 12 games out of 4th place into an instant contender by signing a handful of players to gigantic free agent deals. Pujols plus Wilson were worth just over 10 wins in 2011. That gets the O's halfway to where they need to be, but all the way to their payroll ceiling.

[BilboBaggins]

I'm not sure where you get any of that. Pujols would probably bump attendance up a couple thousand fans a game, maybe enough to offset a fraction of his salary. The O's pitchers might not regress, but there's certainly no guarantee they'll get significantly better, either. The core need not regress - it's the same core that won 69 games last year. $100M payroll won't bankrupt Angelos, but it's probably above the area where the team can reliably break even. It's no coincidence that the O's payroll has stayed mostly in the $75-90M range for years as attendance has fallen and other revenue sources have probably counterbalanced that.

In any case, the O's currently have about $68M in commitments for 2012. Pujols would have cost about $30M a year, and Wilson around $20M. That's not $100M, that's $118M, or about $25M more than any O's payroll, ever. And you still have multiple holes on the roster and absolutely no room to fix it with money.

What I do believe is that you don't turn a team that finished 12 games out of 4th place into an instant contender by signing a handful of players to gigantic free agent deals. Pujols plus Wilson were worth just over 10 wins in 2011. That gets the O's halfway to where they need to be, but all the way to their payroll ceiling.

Fair enough, but I do have a question.

Where has it been written that the Orioles can only spend under $100MM? Has there been an accounting sheet released with all expenses listed where the Orioles can't go over a certain amount per year?

Or is it that Angelos refuses to spend the money?