Guthrie traded to Rockies for Hammel & Lindstrom

[Stotle]

Wow impressive indside sources. You know the arbitrator? And why do you think BOS, STL or DET, would be interested even at 7 M, when they only are offering Oswalt 5-6M?

Guthrie's odds of winning the arbitration were poor. He was smart to take the $8.2 mm settlement from Colorado.

I'm interested in the jackassian response Frobby has coming to him after seeing your response to my thoughts. Be gentle...

[brianod]

If this is your plan then you don't decide to trade Guthrie only after you can't get him to agree to a contract. At the end of the day, even Guthrie and his representatives knew he wasn't worth $10 million so they accepted $8.2 million. Regardless, if DD wanted to get rid of the losing culture, he should have been active in dealing Guthrie, Markakis, and JJ since all have been around the losing and all should have some value to bring in players that could help us in the future.

I personally don't think the losing culture thing holds weight with DD. Maybe I'm wrong but this looks like a trade of a guy who didn't want to come off his number.

So, how successful will a GM be when he lets emotions get in the way of decision making? If you are right, are you saying this is a petty and vindictive move?

[weams]

Guthrie's odds of winning the arbitration were poor. He was smart to take the $8.2 mm settlement from Colorado.

People with better statistics have lost arbritation for lower numbers with less difference within the last 10 days. It appears that the smoke signals were all aling to be a humiliating defeat for Guthrie. DD spared the sword.

[NCRaven]

If this is your plan then you don't decide to trade Guthrie only after you can't get him to agree to a contract. At the end of the day, even Guthrie and his representatives knew he wasn't worth $10 million so they accepted $8.2 million. Regardless, if DD wanted to get rid of the losing culture, he should have been active in dealing Guthrie, Markakis, and JJ since all have been around the losing and all should have some value to bring in players that could help us in the future.

I personally don't think the losing culture thing holds weight with DD. Maybe I'm wrong but this looks like a trade of a guy who didn't want to come off his number.

I don't disagree. I think that DD did not want to pay top dollar to a pitcher that neither he nor Buck thought was worth top dollar. I agree with what Connor said, that it was time for Guthrie to step up, and he didn't. For that reason, I'm not at all opposed to this trade. But, I do wish that AM had traded Guthrie earlier, when he had value and feel that Jones should either be extended or traded. If Angelos is pulling strings in anyway, it is probably a resistance to gutting the major league roster and trading away everyone of value. I doubt PA is willing to see Jones, Markakis, Hardy and Reynolds all moved for prospects and the resulting 100 loss season, but I'm actually encouraged that he allowed DD to move Guthrie, at the very least.

[weams]

I'm with a few others that agrees with almost everyone that I'd much rather have prospects, but disagrees that this is a poor trade, especially if good prospects were not available as Duq said.

There's a good chance that Hammel + Lindstrom > Guthrie in production this coming year, plus they are controlled for an extra year.

My only real issue other than not getting young players, is that Lindstrom makes too much money for what he is, but at least the O's only have to keep him and Hammel through next year.

And it appears that the Orioles were going to overpay for someone like him within the week if he were not obtained.

[Sports Guy]

I don't disagree. I think that DD did not want to pay top dollar to a pitcher that neither he nor Buck thought was worth top dollar. I agree with what Connor said, that it was time for Guthrie to step up, and he didn't. For that reason, I'm not at all opposed to this trade. But, I do wish that AM had traded Guthrie earlier, when he had value and feel that Jones should either be extended or traded. If Angelos is pulling strings in anyway, it is probably a resistance to gutting the major league roster and trading away everyone of value. I doubt PA is willing to see Jones, Markakis, Hardy and Reynolds all moved for prospects and the resulting 100 loss season, but I'm actually encouraged that he allowed DD to move Guthrie, at the very least.

But yet he had no issues overpaying an average reliever?

[Slappy]

The Orioles don't have enough talent to contend and getting two mediocre 30 year old pitchers does nothing to help the organization long term. Getting a couple solid prospects who might be big producers four years from now is preferable because we aren't going to compete for 4 years anyway. Like it or not, the Orioles need to rebuild. The time for bandaids should have been over when MacPhail left the warehouse. Apparently not.

While it is the "appeal to the majority" argument, there is no real proof that going all-prospect is the way to build a winning team, certainly not today and not for sure in the future either. Why does everyone believe prospects are the way to build an organization? More often than not, and perhaps far more often, they end up being busts. DD's strategy right now relies less on our proven poor player development system, which if you think about it makes sense.

And this also ignores the fact that DD stated there were no prospect deals available for Guthrie.

[Going Underground]

The thing that scares me is the O's don't have a veteran leader for the young pitchers. I heard Millwood helped alot when he was here. Who do the O's have now?

[jjb]

I'm wondering why Guthrie and his agent put such a high number out there to begin with. Were they trying to provoke a confrontation and/or a trade? Since they hadn't been approached with a long term deal, may be they wanted out of Baltimore and a chance to set up better for free agency w/ a better team. Granted, pitching at Coors probably isn't what they may have had in mind.

[MarylandAaron]

Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

Sources say the talks about settling Guthrie's arbitration case were contentious; maybe the O's just decided they wouldn't pay him big $.

Sounds about right to me. This trade seems like mostly a money deal. We didn't want to pay Guthrie what his agent wanted, and we got two cheaper (and potentially decent) pitchers in return for him. Guthrie's reliability will be missed though.

[Frobby]

The thing that scares me is the O's don't have a veteran leader for the young pitchers. I heard Millwood helped alot when he was here. Who do the O's have now?

The way I see it, most of the young starters have been around Guthrie for a couple of years. If there was something to learn from him, they should have learned it by now.

[MarylandAaron]

Btw, sorry if I missed this, but has anyone done a thorough analysis of the two pitchers we got from the Rox? I don't feel like searching the whole thread.

[Frobby]

I'm wondering why Guthrie and his agent put such a high number out there to begin with. Were they trying to provoke a confrontation and/or a trade? Since they hadn't been approached with a long term deal, may be they wanted out of Baltimore and a chance to set up better for free agency w/ a better team. Granted, pitching at Coors probably isn't what they may have had in mind.

This has occurred to me. I also found it interesting that Guthrie did not attend Fanfest. It was almost as if he knew he wouldn't be here.

[MarylandAaron]

The way I see it, most of the young starters have been around Guthrie for a couple of years. If there was something to learn from him, they should have learned it by now.

Mhm, plus one would hope the addition of Rick Peterson would be a big help for our younger pitchers.

[NCRaven]

Btw, sorry if I missed this, but has anyone done a thorough analysis of the two pitchers we got from the Rox? I don't feel like searching the whole thread.

Yes it has, but you'll have to search the whole thread to find it!