Dan Duquette says Orioles will not sign Seong Min-kim

[Malike]

Was he advised by someone? I have not heard one way or another. I asked Patrick who runs NPB tracker about agents for Japanese players and he stated most of them get one when they join MLB.

I think it is entirely possible that Kim was a 16 year old with an imperfect mastery of English who was approached by the Orioles with a WOW! offer in hand and assurances that everything was on the up and up.

It's reasonable to think that. It's also reasonable to think he knew what was going on and thought he'd take a chance. I refuse to believe that no adult in this kids life said absolutely nothing to this kid about signing with an MLB team. I am confident that Duquette wasn't hanging around a Korean high school parking lot to catch this kid walking home from school and promised him the world on a string right then and there.

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[MrOrange82]

From that site:

That's pretty much all I needed to read, and I'm honestly not trying to dismiss your research.

It's your call, but the author has produced work that's appeared on baseball-prospectus, so it might not be reasonable to write it off out-of-hand.

I'm sure that, in your line of work, you've seen plenty of people get off (or, at least, try to escape responsibility) for massive screw-ups. I can completely understand wanting to hold such people accountable. But, IMO, this situation is akin to you (or me) staging a one-man campaign against something like Bank of America (say, after being promised a great interest rate for a major purchase with hidden escalators, etc.). I can only speak for myself, but I was pretty, astonishingly stupid as a 17 year-old. And I don't think that situation's unique. Add language barriers/distinctions, professional predators looking to make a profit off of his windfall, the promise of wealth that vastly exceeds his domestic income potential, and (perhaps) parents/family who simply weren't adequately prepared (given his relative "unknown" status to most ML clubs and evaluators) to advise him properly...well, suffice it to say I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (and feel sorry for him) when faced with the blatant procedural screw-ups of a major, professional organization such as the Orioles (one that's even stewarded by someone who's signed a significant number of Korean players in the past...i.e., someone who should've definitely known better).

[JimDH]

KBO needs to let up on the kid. If they willfully prevent him from playing that makes them the bad guy if one must be found.

[Can_of_corn]

It's reasonable to think that. It's also reasonable to think he knew what was going on and thought he'd take a chance. I refuse to believe that no adult in this kids life said absolutely nothing to this kid about signing with an MLB team. I am confident that Duquette wasn't hanging around a Korean high school parking lot to catch this kid walking home from school and promised him the world on a string right then and there.

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I am not sure where Kim is from but I think that overall, you are overestimating the level of sophistication you find in South Korea. If the O's "experts" did not realize they were breaching protocol I think it is a bit much to expect Kim and his family to know.

[Malike]

It's your call, but the author has produced work that's appeared on baseball-prospectus, so it might not be reasonable to write it off out-of-hand.

I'm sure that, in your line of work, you've seen plenty of people get off (or, at least, try to escape responsibility) for massive screw-ups. I can completely understand wanting to hold such people accountable. But, IMO, this situation is akin to you (or me) staging a one-man campaign against something like Bank of America (say, after being promised a great interest rate for a major purchase with hidden escalators, etc.). I can only speak for myself, but I was pretty, astonishingly stupid as a 17 year-old. And I don't think that situation's unique. Add language barriers/distinctions, professional predators looking to make a profit off of his windfall, the promise of wealth that vastly exceeds his domestic income potential, and (perhaps) parents/family who simply weren't adequately prepared (given his relative "unknown" status to most ML clubs and evaluators) to advise him properly...well, suffice it to say I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (and feel sorry for him) when faced with the blatant procedural screw-ups of a major, professional organization such as the Orioles (one that's even stewarded by someone who's signed a significant number of Korean players in the past...i.e., someone who should've definitely known better).

I'm not saying DD didn't mess up, he did. I am saying I believe that this kid, who was playing organized ball for his home country most likely had an idea that he shouldn't be negotiating with a team from MLB. It's hard to turn down that much money, and he probably felt the payday was worth the penalty of not being able to play for the KBA.

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[Malike]

I am not sure where Kim is from but I think that overall, you are overestimating the level of sophistication you find in South Korea. If the O's "experts" did not realize they were breaching protocol I think it is a bit much to expect Kim and his family to know.

I'm pretty sure that the O's knew they were breaching protocol. Having been to South Korea, I will attest to their level of sophistication. It is my belief and experience that they are quite lovely and intelligent people.

Edit: I probably shouldn't have said the O's were breaching protocol, because protocol, by definition, is official. The O's breached an unofficial rule, which shamed the KBO.

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[Can_of_corn]

I'm pretty sure that the O's knew they were breaching protocol. Having been to South Korea, I will attest to their level of sophistication. It is my belief and experience that they are quite lovely and intelligent people.

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I wasn't disparaging their intelligence in the least.

[Malike]

I wasn't disparaging their intelligence in the least.

I understand you weren't. This kid had been pitching for the S. Korean National Team, its not like he was not exposed to top notch coaching, and I'm sure the kids that play on the National level are aware of the do's and don'ts. They didn't go to some Province in the middle of nowhere and sign him to a contract. Again, I fault the O's, it was dumb. I do feel bad for the kid, but I am not willing to absolve him of responsibility. That's just my opinion, and I don't fault anyone for disagreeing.

[MrOrange82]

I'm not saying DD didn't mess up, he did. I am saying I believe that this kid, who was playing organized ball for his home country most likely had an idea that he shouldn't be negotiating with a team from MLB. It's hard to turn down that much money, and he probably felt the payday was worth the penalty of not being able to play for the KBA.

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Why would the kid "most likely" have known that the Orioles hadn't simply asked the KBO permission to conduct discussions with him? As far as I know, there aren't any rules in place preventing ML teams from signing amateur talent out of Korea. This debacle was the result of the Orioles' failure to follow SOP for the country.

I know Maryland's a contributory negligence state, but sheesh...it's in the minority for a reason.

(look, waroriole - I'm learning...something! Kind of...)

[Malike]

Why would the kid "most likely" have known that the Orioles hadn't simply asked the KBO permission to conduct discussions with him? As far as I know, there aren't any rules in place preventing ML teams from signing amateur talent out of Korea. This debacle was the result of the Orioles' failure to follow SOP for the country.

I know Maryland's a contributory negligence state, but sheesh...it's in the minority for a reason.

(look, waroriole - I'm learning...something! Kind of...)

There aren't rules in place. The KBO was shamed because they did not get the same treatment that NPB gets, and being a shame based society, they freaked out and banned the team and the kid from doing business with the KBO. I feel he will be reinstated, it sucks that he can't play right now. The kid had the talent to play on the National team, he was exposed to the best coaching at the amateur level, and I find it hard to believe that he was completely clueless about the possible consequences. People do dumb things for large sums of money, and sometimes its worth the risk to them to get the reward.

[weams]

Well, Dan says he made a mistake, got punished for it, and is moving on. Not sure what the deal is with the kid. I guess if he is a good pitcher and worthy of that kind of bonus he will pitch somewhere, for someone. So since I'm an Oriole fan, I am moving on from this as well. Please understand, I am on record as believing that there was a kickback unpaid not a honor shame. Call me jaded.

[Malike]

Well, Dan says he made a mistake, got punished for it, and is moving on. Not sure what the deal is with the kid. I guess if he is a good pitcher and worthy of that kind of bonus he will pitch somewhere, for someone. So since I'm an Oriole fan, I am moving on from this as well.

I agree with this. Nobody is wrong with their opinion in this matter.

[MrOrange82]

There aren't rules in place. The KBO was shamed because they did not get the same treatment that NPB gets, and being a shame based society, they freaked out and banned the team and the kid from doing business with the KBO. I feel he will be reinstated, it sucks that he can't play right now. The kid had the talent to play on the National team, he was exposed to the best coaching at the amateur level, and I find it hard to believe that he was completely clueless about the possible consequences. People do dumb things for large sums of money, and sometimes its worth the risk to them to get the reward.

Remind me never to speed in your jurisdiction

I think we ultimately disagree as to whether he knew/comprehended the "risk" involved with dealing with the Orioles. And, since neither of us is privy to the negotiation process that took place, neither of us can say for sure what the "correct" answer is. I'm inclined to side with the kid because, in my estimation, he's absorbed a disproportionate loss relative to that suffered by the Orioles, and he was also (again, IMO) in a virtually-inestimably worse bargaining position relative to that occupied by the Orioles.

I can agree to disagree. Here's hoping, regardless of the preceding, that the kid gets reinstated eventually.

[Malike]

I'm not the guy who runs down cars doing 10MPH over the limit.

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[weams]

I'm not the guy who runs down cars doing 10MPH over the limit.

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You are the guy in the Kevlar.