Does Flaherty and his .519 OPS have a place on this team?

[Flash- bd]

I put a fair amount of stock in the MiL scouting reports which said he was a bit below average anywhere you put him. He doesnt have enough innings at any position this year for me to judge him either by watching him play or reading his stats. What is clear is that he looked like a matador tonight on a tailor made DP grounder. That's not a criticism of how good a 3B he is, it's just a factual description of what happened in this game.

Yeah, like I said above, I just don't think he's suited for the utility man role. Tolleson is better for that, IMO. I still think Flaherty has value for this team as a guy who can get spot starts at 3B/2B/LF/RF, however his value is seriously mitigated by the fact that Betemit our 3B hits better LH, Davis our LF hits LH and is a better hitter, Markakis our RF is LH and is a better hitter, which leaves Andino as a possible platoon but considering Andino's defense has been pretty sparkling over the last few games you probably don't want to be giving Flaherty the majority of starts (which the LH part of a L/R platoon will always get by a good distance) there either.

[brianod]

he's 26? So, grabbing him and holding him only makes sense if he has a great upside. The fact that he's 26 seems to belie that. I trust Duquette but it is all a little baffling...

[El Gordo]

I put a fair amount of stock in the MiL scouting reports which said he was a bit below average anywhere you put him. He doesnt have enough innings at any position this year for me to judge him either by watching him play or reading his stats. What is clear is that he looked like a matador tonight on a tailor made DP grounder. That's not a criticism of how good a 3B he is, it's just a factual description of what happened in this game.

I put more stock in Buck's and DD's opinion, as well as what I see when he plays. He looks to have good potential at a number of different positions, if he played there regularly. The fact that Buck has used him as a defensive replacement over Tolleson tells me he thinks that way as well. Any body can look bad on a given play, and then people can get reactionary about it, given the in game context.. That would seem to be the OH way.

[Frobby]

I put more stock in Buck's and DD's opinion, as well as what I see when he plays. He looks to have good potential at a number of diofferent positions, if he played there rgularly, the fact that Buck has used him as a dfensive replacement over Tolleson tells me he thinks that waya as well. Any body can look bad on a given play, and then people can get reactionary about it given the in game context.. That would seem to be the OH way.

Well, to be clear, I am not being reactionary. I already believed Flaherty was a below average defender before tonight, though as I said, he's certainly better than Betemit so I had no problem with the defensive substitution. As between Flaherty and Tolleson, it's basically a toss-up defensively. Tolleson isn't stellar, either.

[El Gordo]

Well, to be clear, I am not being reactionary. I already believed Flaherty was a below average defender before tonight, though as I said, he's certainly better than Betemit so I had no problem with the defensive substitution. As between Flaherty and Tolleson, it's basically a toss-up defensively. Tolleson isn't stellar, either.

Flaherty has 2 E's in 78 IN at 3B, Tolleson 4 IN 98. Why do you think Buck prefers Flaherty to Tolleson for D if they are a toss up?

[Frobby]

Flaherty has 2 E's in 78 IN at 3B, Tolleson 4 IN 98. Why do you think Buck prefers Flaherty to Tolleson for D if they are a toss up?

Why are you arguing with me over such a trivial point? My point is that neither one is very good defensively, though both are better than Reynolds or Betemit. And the fact that Tolleson has more innings at 3B than Flaherty despite only bring on the team for maybe half the games tells me that your point isn't that clear cut.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I recall scouting reports (when we got him) indicating he could project as a plus defender at third base. The question was more about his bat being good enough there. He has looked fine to me in the IF. I didn't see the error yet. It's one error. I'm not sure why people think he'd project below average defensively at third base (or even second base), or that he should even be mentioned in the same sentence with Betemit.

[Flash- bd]

I recall scouting reports (when we got him) indicating he could project as a plus defender at third base. The question was more about his bat being good enough there. He has looked fine to me in the IF. I didn't see the error yet. It's one error. I'm not sure why people think he'd project below average defensively at third base (or even second base), or that he should even be mentioned in the same sentence with Betemit.

I could see him lacking the fluidity and range you'd want in a 2B. At 3B I agree I'd be confident in him as at least an average defender given regular playing time. The question would be more if his bat plays at 3B. His bat most definitely would play at 2B.

I don't see why people are so mystified over him staying on the roster. The guy is a potential ML regular. (I think people should take a look at his MiL stats, I have a feeling a lot of the people who hate on Flaherty haven't even done that most basic step) You can't say that about Tolleson, Chavez or any of our other bench players. I don't see how it's not worth it to keep him on the roster until Sept. 1 (so what, 1 1/2 months more) to have control of him in the years after. He could be a valuable stopgap for Schoop/Machado at 3B/2B next year and is at the least valuable depth with--can't underline this enough--potential to be an ML regular.

[Frobby]

I recall scouting reports (when we got him) indicating he could project as a plus defender at third base. The question was more about his bat being good enough there. He has looked fine to me in the IF. I didn't see the error yet. It's one error. I'm not sure why people think he'd project below average defensively at third base (or even second base), or that he should even be mentioned in the same sentence with Betemit.

WTF? There is NOBODY suggesting he is anywhere near as bad a defensive player as Betemit. All you had was some people venting because Flaherty came in as a defensive replacement and then screwed up a routine defensive play.

[CA-ORIOLE]

WTF? There is NOBODY suggesting he is anywhere near as bad a defensive player as Betemit. All you had was some people venting because Flaherty came in as a defensive replacement and then screwed up a routine defensive play.

You were stating an opinion that he was below average and stated in the same sentence he was better than Betemit or Reynolds. Calm down.

[Mondo Trasho]

I knew we were doomed as soon as Flaherty did his Buckner impersonation. And I was right in front of some heckling Tigers fans (well one in particular). Not a good feeling and Flaherty was not on my list of favorite players at that moment.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I could see him lacking the fluidity and range you'd want in a 2B. At 3B I agree I'd be confident in him as at least an average defender given regular playing time. The question would be more if his bat plays at 3B. His bat most definitely would play at 2B.

I don't see why people are so mystified over him staying on the roster. The guy is a potential ML regular. (I think people should take a look at his MiL stats, I have a feeling a lot of the people who hate on Flaherty haven't even done that most basic step) You can't say that about Tolleson, Chavez or any of our other bench players. I don't see how it's not worth it to keep him on the roster until Sept. 1 (so what, 1 1/2 months more) to have control of him in the years after. He could be a valuable stopgap for Schoop/Machado at 3B/2B next year and is at the least valuable depth with--can't underline this enough--potential to be an ML regular.

Yeah, I think you've nailed the problem. I'd probably lean more towards second base than third if we're talking potential starter. I mean we really don't have a lot to go off (defense) other than scouting reports and FP%. Minor leagues do have a total zone number that show him slightly below average at third and above average at second. FP%'s are pretty low. He has played a lot at SS in the minors. I think he has looked fairly good (by my eyes) out there in the IF, but I don't think he's a SS (but could be a primary backup IMO). Looks like the Cubs decided he wasn't a SS and decided to make him a utility guy at some point (before he put up a .900 OPS in AA). IMO it'd be nice to keep him and see what he could do at third base in the minors next year. The guy has 20ish HR potential. Could be a late bloomer and we'd have a ML ready guy available with multiple options next year.

[ShoelesJoe]

I don't think there's any question that Tolleson is a better fielding 3rd baseman than Flaherty, which is why the former should have been in the game as a 9th inning defensive replacement. Citing Tolleson's 4 errors in 91 innings vs. Flaherty's 1 error (after today) in 79 innings makes sense only if you ignore the fact that in those 91 innings Tolleson had twice as many chances as Flaherty (32 to 16). SSS and all that, but what evidence there is appears to show that Tolleson gets to way more balls in play than Flaherty. Now maybe someday Flaherty will be a better defensive 3rd baseman than Tolleson, but not this season.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't think there's any question that Tolleson is a better fielding 3rd baseman than Flaherty, which is why the former should have been in the game as a 9th inning defensive replacement. Citing Tolleson's 4 errors in 91 innings vs. Flaherty's 1 error (after today) in 79 innings makes sense only if you ignore the fact that in those 91 innings Tolleson had twice as many chances as Flaherty (32 to 16). SSS and all that, but what evidence there is appears to show that Tolleson gets to way more balls in play than Flaherty. Now maybe someday Flaherty will be a better defensive 3rd baseman than Tolleson, but not this season.

I think Tolleson has made some nice plays over at third base. I'd agree with you that he has looked more spectacular at some plays than Flaherty. Still I'm not sure I'd let that influence me too much. Very SSS here and the coaches probably have a bettter idea then we do. Also, Tolleson has put up fairly decent offensive numbers for quite awhile in the minors for a MI and not gotten much of a chance in the majors. You have to think that there are reasons for that (and it likely relates to his defense).

[Va Beach O's fan]

If the Os are even remotely trying to be competitive this year, keeping Flaherty on the Major League roster is baffling. Contenders don't keep around AAA guys on the MLB lineup for an entire year so as to have him on the AAA the following year. He needs to be sent back to Chicago (or at least their AA or AAA affiliate). It's not like we're talking about some kid who has a lot of talent and we can expect to work back to Baltimore sometime in 2013. He will never be more than AAAA level talent if that. He may never even be backup worthy (and he certainly isn't that now).

The fact that he didn't end up costing us the win today shouldn't matter.

I couldn't agree more with this post. He is no longer a "prospect". He's just a AAAA utility player with little to no stick and slightly above average defense.

Those guys are available all over the place. I'd much rather have a guy like Lew Ford or maybe even Nate McClouth (who has also been raking lately) on the team right now than a once or twice a week role player who commits a brutal error as a freaking defensive replacement in the 9th inning. I don't think he is adding any value to this team right now and quite frankly, I don't see him EVER adding any value down the road either.

He just isn't that good. If he wasn't a rule 5 guy he would have been in Norfolk a LONG time ago and that is the bottom line.