Every time I watch Posey hit...

[Billy Button]

Downing, not Downey. It's important to remember that Downing played less than half of his games behind the plate; he was an outfielder and DH as much as a catcher. I remember him even batting lead-off for the Angels--Gene Mauch's enlightened idea based on Downing's high OBP. He became a good coach, too, which is something I cd see Wieters doing in the future--after the O's win a few championships, of course.

Oops. I worked with a guy named Downey. But I wasn't comparing Wieters to Downing. Just saying he was part of the original muscle club aka "Hey, These Steroids Really Make Me Look Buff In This Uniform Club."

[Billy Button]

Ok we won't bawl him out, but this thread at least deserves the horse:

Yesterday I learned that Wieters had an OPS of over .900 while batting cleanup. For a guy that hit .249 all year, that stat gives me a little hope. As for who to best compare Wieters to, I cannot think of anyone. Johnson is probably as good a choice as any, but I can't recall any othe catcher who hit the snot out of the baseball his whole life the way Wieters did before arriving with the O's (don't get me started on Posey). Let's hope that Wieter's cleanup spot success wasn't a fluke.

Sorry if Billy offended anyone with a near-duplicate thread from a previous day. Billy begs forgiveness. Bad Billy bad!! Good thing America has you good folks protecting her from redundant internet message board posts. Phewie!!

[sevastras]

[Morgan423]

Invisible Monsters Roaring At Otters Are Outrageous?

Winner!

[OFFNY]

In My Rarely Acknowledged Or Accepted Opinion?

Invisible Monsters Roaring At Otters Are Outrageous?

IMRAOAO = In my rat's ass of an opinion.

[Frobby]

He is what he is at this point, IMO.

Unless he isn't. When you consider that a guy like Varitek hadn't even won a starting job at age 26, and then started putting up a string of .850+ seasons in his late 20's, or if you look at what Yadier Molina has done the last two years at ages 28 and 29 after being a very mediocre hitter at Wieters' age, you have to realize that it is not a foregone conclusions that Wieters "is what he is" offensively. Some catchers blossom early offensively and some blossom later, while still others never blossom at all. Wieters is very solid as it is, but it's an open book whether he'll get any better.

[Billy Button]

Okay. Maybe "resemble" wasn't the best word choice.

[Moose Milligan]

Unless he isn't. When you consider that a guy like Varitek hadn't even won a starting job at age 26, and then started putting up a string of .850+ seasons in his late 20's, or if you look at what Yadier Molina has done the last two years at ages 28 and 29 after being a very mediocre hitter at Wieters' age, you have to realize that it is not a foregone conclusions that Wieters "is what he is" offensively. Some catchers blossom early offensively and some blossom later, while still others never blossom at all. Wieters is very solid as it is, but it's an open book whether he'll get any better.

Wouldn't bet on it. What's the percentage of players that have career arcs like Varitek and Molina vs the ones who are what they are?

Ultimately, you're right, it's not a foregone conclusion only because a few examples exist in which a few players have bucked their career trends.

[Annie]

IMRAOAO = In my rat's ass of an opinion.

:laughlol: thanks for clearing that up. and, I like it.

[Frobby]

Wouldn't bet on it. What's the percentage of players that have career arcs like Varitek and Molina vs the ones who are what they are?

Ultimately, you're right, it's not a foregone conclusion only because a few examples exist in which a few players have bucked their career trends.

I don't know this for sure, but I think the percentage of catchers who are late bloomers on offense is higher than at other positions. It's logical, because there is so much to learn on the defensive side that catchers just can't spend as much time honing their offensive game. Still, I can think of plenty of catchers who were good hitters right away.

I just want to repeat one thing I've said a few times already: Wieters is already a good offensive player for a catcher. He's not exactly Brad Ausmus out there. He's just not elite.

[tntoriole]

I still think Matt's best years with the bat are yet to come...here's hoping for a monster season in 2013.

[mobico]

In My Rarely Acknowledged Or Accepted Opinion?

Invisible Monsters Roaring At Otters Are Outrageous?

In Marriage, Roses Are Often Advantageous Offerings

[mdbdotcom]

Wieters is so far and away the best catcher the O's have ever had (although Johnny Orsino was very promising until he broke his thumb), that I am not dismayed by the gap between his offensive potential and what he has produced thus far. He is not the hitter Fisk was, but he has that stone face. Nothing stops him, and he makes every player on the field better.

[Frobby]

Compare Wieters to Bill Freehan?

Id take it. Bill was an 11 time All Star and played all 15 years in a Tiger uniform.We should be so lucky.

I was pretty proud of that comp. I agree we'd be fortunate to have Wieters turn out to be as good as Freehan.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't know this for sure, but I think the percentage of catchers who are late bloomers on offense is higher than at other positions. It's logical, because there is so much to learn on the defensive side that catchers just can't spend as much time honing their offensive game. Still, I can think of plenty of catchers who were good hitters right away.

I just want to repeat one thing I've said a few times already: Wieters is already a good offensive player for a catcher. He's not exactly Brad Ausmus out there. He's just not elite.

It makes sense, I just don't hold out much hope.

No, he's not Brad Ausmus. However I don't think Brad Ausmus ever put up minor league numbers like Wieters did.