We seriously need to consider another closer at this point

[oriolesmagic9]

Buck seems to be in major denial judging by his post game comments. Why is he not seeing the same thing as everyone else re: Johnson?

Maybe he does. What's he supposed to say? Hey, my guy really blows. I can't wait to bench him.

[nate22]

JJ has ventured into Captain Chaos territory. He's become "General Disarray".

[ChaosLex]

@EddieInTheYard

Showalter made every effort to make it clear that he still has complete confidence in Jim Johnson in the closer role. #Orioles

[ChaosLex]

@EddieInTheYard

Jim Johnson: "I?m going to keep working. Like I said before, thats all I can do it keep plugging away & trusting that I can do it." #orioles

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[Majopa]

This is bigger than a Buck thing. It is a baseball thing. For some reason coaches and in general baseball fans seem to think that the closer role is needed. You see coaches from Buck to Joe Maddon regularly rely on a guy to get outs when there are pitches in their pen who would be better at getting particular outs. But because those pitchers

arn't the closer, they don't get to pitch in the 9th

[Norfolk orioles]

Of course Buck is seeing the same thing as everyone else. The difference is that he's the manager. He can't just throw his players under the bus or complain about how terrible they are like fans can. Not unless he wants a full-scale player revolt.

Removing Johnson from the closers role would not qualify as throwing someone under the bus.

At bare minimum it would constitute "doing the job he is paid to do". Any chimp could keep sending Johnson out there over and over again to get shelled. It takes a manager with some guts and some backbone to say "look this is unacceptable", so to get you straightened out, we are going to give you a less high-pressure job for now and when you get things straightened out, you're back in".

Sending Johnson out again as a closer isn't brave or non-reactionary, it's stupid. He has no control of his secondary pitches and without them, he isn't even a mediocre pitcher. As evidenced by one of the worst hitters in baseball, Kawasaki, destroying a flat piece of garbage pitch to win the game.

He dl'd strop for having no control. Why should Johnson not only stay on the team, but stay in as closer???

Remember, this isn't a recent development.

Johnson got destroyed not once but twice in the alcs against the Yankees as well.

Don't act like buck is some great manager because he won't pull Johnson and he has his guys back .......at some point you have to make it clear that the performances are unacceptable and I'm sorry, but we've already arrived at that point.

We can't keep giving away games in the ninth if we want to win the East.

[Norfolk orioles]

Maybe he does. What's he supposed to say? Hey, my guy really blows. I can't wait to bench him.

No. But he can say that he needs to get better. Anything other than "he's my closer and I'm sticking with him". That doesn't just send the wrong message, it sends no message at all.

[Barnaby Graves]

We're paying $6.5 million for a bullpen arm whose entire job is to be used in arbitrarily important situations (the 9th, 3 run or less lead) outside of his true strength (right-handed batters regardless of inning) whose modus operandi is basically "hope the gods of batting average with balls in play don't smite me today."

And next year we will be $8 million for said bullpen arm.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Exactly. Buck was a great manager last year. He pushed nearly all the right buttons. That's probably why we went 29-9 in one run games. He was on fire.

This year he's been pretty average to below average, Despite our +.500 record.

He's cost us games by leaving guys in and failing to get guys up in time or just flat out letting them die on the vine like Johnson.

Strop, jj and Patton have all fallen completely apart. I don't blame showalter for that, but I do blame him for failing to notice it fast enough to save us from losing some very winnable games.

The guy isn't perfect, and some of you take any criticism at all of him very very personally. Frankly I don't understand why it's ok to criticize players but not buck.

Johnson couldn't take himself out of the game. That's what buck is paid to do, make tough decisions and gut calls.

So far, this year, he's been pretty bad when it counted the most. That's reality, whether you choose to accept it or not.

Yeah, don't buy it. Last year relievers performed extraordinarily well in high leverage situations, this year they're not. Too much credit was given to Buck last year and too much blame is clearly being assigned here. I'm not going to absolve Buck from all blame, the manager is always subject to critique, and there are clearly valid points that he may need to make more adjustments, but the overall environment with the SP's and RP's this year has been extremely challenging.

[Brooks The Great]

The closer is not always the most important arm in the bullpen. O'Day is more valuable in a setup role. I'm not buying Hunter's ERA to this point in the season either.

But it's important. And what does the best arm have anything to do with this? Johnson is the worst arm right now and you're advocating sticking with him. I think that's poor thinking. The bottom line is that Johnson shouldn't be pitching with the game on the line until he's worked through his issues. O'Day and Hunter are the two best guys to pitch in important situations until Johnson gets himself right. Sticking with Johnson for the next save situation is terrible management.

You might be right that O'Day is "more valuable" in a setup role, but that doesn't mean Johnson should continue closing with the way he's throwing. All of the work O'Day will be putting in ahead of Johnson will all be wasted every time Johnson coughs up leads. What good is a great setup man to preserve a lead if your terrible closer loses it?

All of the late inning roles are important. Johnson should not be pitching with a lead (or in any meaningful situation) for at least a week or two, or at the very least until he shows he's improved his command and results by throwing several scoreless innings.

[Barnaby Graves]

Yeah, don't buy it. Last year relievers performed extraordinarily well in high leverage situations, this year they're not. Too much credit was given to Buck last year and too much blame is clearly being assigned here. I'm not going to absolve Buck from all blame, the manager is always subject to critique, and there are clearly valid points that he may need to make more adjustments, but the overall environment with the SP's and RP's this year has been extremely challenging.

Didn't we have a top 10 historical bullpen WPA last year?

Wonder what it'll be this year.

[CA-ORIOLE]

We're paying $6.5 million for a bullpen arm whose entire job is to be used in arbitrarily important situations (the 9th, 3 run or less lead) outside of his true strength (right-handed batters regardless of inning) whose modus operandi is basically "hope the gods of batting average with balls in play don't smite me today."

And next year we will be $8 million for said bullpen arm.

Not like there weren't questions about his peripherals or quite a few people thinking we should sell high on him in the offseason (just not for Rick Porcello).

[Barnaby Graves]

Not like there weren't questions about his peripherals or quite a few people thinking we should sell high on him in the offseason (just not for Rick Porcello).

I made one of those threads and was told not to mess with the team because we had won 85 of our last 40 games and something something when leading after 7 innings.

[Norfolk orioles]

You might want to look up the definition of "reality." What you've described is an opinion.

An opinion based around reality.

If you want me to dissect every little thing he does, I could do that for you, like not taking out Markakis for Dickerson (he makes the catch on that 1st hit of the 9th inning where Markakis doesn't) or the mishandling of the bullpen etc. Or not pinch hitting for Casilla etc.

There are little things you can pick and choose all around to make any manager look bad.

That's not what I'm doing. I'm saying, in a general sense, buck has been below average so far this year.

He has the number 1 hr hitting offense in baseball, one of if not the best overall offense in baseball and the number 1 defense in baseball.

Yet we are only 4 games over .500 because of how poorly then pen has been managed. It has cost us perhaps a dozen games this year that were very winnable. Strop Johnson and Patton have been awful.

Buck has to find some better solutions but to keep acting like there is no problem, which is what he did again tonight in the post game interview, is inexcusable.

[PaulFolk]

Removing Johnson from the closers role would not qualify as throwing someone under the bus.

And how do you know he's not going to do that? Do you really think that when he says something to the media, that's absolutely the end-all, be-all of the issue? Do you think that he's not having different conversations and addressing issues behind closed doors?

Buck is not the type of manager who, immediately after a heartbreaking loss, would go and slam his players in the media to add salt to the wound. He'll publicly support his guys, as any good manager should, but of course there's a lot going on behind the scenes. He sees the same thing the rest of us are seeing. I would be surprised if Johnson's leash isn't extremely short, no matter what Buck says publicly.