The BRob Effect

[Redskins Rick]

All we all talking about the same guy here?

[auzzy98]

Still a SSS, but I honestly don't know how a well informed baseball fan can look at Brob in the field and not think he's below average out there.

What is so below average? Give me some examples. I really want to know how bad he is at 2nd base. I watch the same games as everyone else and i see him being average and pretty adequate out there.

[flashjordnk]

If being 5'9" hurts his defense that still counts against his defense. The ball doesn't care why Roberts couldn't get to it.

I really don't think calling his defense "bad" constitutes "ripping" him, but I know a lot of folks take any and all criticism of Roberts personally.

Curiously, is Roberts the only "bad" defender you think the O's have? Would you call the rest of the O's defenders good? I don't think many fans here would call Adam Jones good, they'd prefer to call him average. Once you start using terms like bad, it's anything that's less than average, and that's a pretty wide range of what you can get from a defender.

I thin the distinction between good vs bad is one that people might object too. I think the scale of well below average, below average, average, above average, well above average is a better application. I think if you called him a below average defender you'd be eliciting a bit less of an antagonistic response.

[Can_of_corn]

What is so below average? Give me some examples. I really want to know how bad he is at 2nd base. I watch the same games as everyone else and i see him being average and pretty adequate out there.

You have seen Flaherty and Casilla right? Don't you think they get to balls that Roberts doesn't?

[Can_of_corn]

Curiously, is Roberts the only "bad" defender you think the O's have? Would you call the rest of the O's defenders good? I don't think many fans here would call Adam Jones good, they'd prefer to call him average. Once you start using terms like bad, it's anything that's less than average, and that's a pretty wide range of what you can get from a defender.

I thin the distinction between good vs bad is one that people might object too. I think the scale of well below average, below average, average, above average, well above average is a better application. I think if you called him a below average defender you'd be eliciting a bit less of an antagonistic response.

You get an antagonistic response from certain members of the fanbase anytime you criticize Roberts in any way.

I think Davis, Markakis, McLouth and Jones all fall within the "average" umbrella. I think Hardy, Machado and Wieters are above average.

[El Gordo]

What is so below average? Give me some examples. I really want to know how bad he is at 2nd base. I watch the same games as everyone else and i see him being average and pretty adequate out there.

Macier Izturis, Rickie Weeks, Jason Kipnis, Dan Uggla, Jose Altuve, Jeff Keppinger.

[auzzy98]

Well Casilla hasn't played 2nd enough to hardly know. Flaherty has made some great plays yes. The ball he dove for against the Yankees the first game Roberts was back was a nice play, and one Roberts would likely not have gotten to. So that makes him below average that he couldnt have gotten to that ball? What about the sweet play Roberts made against Chicago? Flaherty may have not made that play due to the fact that he is a lot slower than Roberts. Does that make him a below average defender? You would say no...so what's the difference?

You have seen Flaherty and Casilla right? Don't you think they get to balls that Roberts doesn't?

[El Gordo]

You get an antagonistic response from certain members of the fanbase anytime you criticize Roberts in any way.

I think Davis, Markakis, McLouth and Jones all fall within the "average" umbrella. I think Hardy, Machado and Wieters are above average.

Which is just why trolls like to do it.

[BohKnowsBmore]

That's pretty absurd. There aren't enough balls hit in the area of 2B for this to be even remotely true. If you want to go with one ball every other game, I'll buy it.

I think this is a function of knowing/already thinking Roberts is "bad" defensively and assuming every ball that's hit to the right side of the infield would be grabbed by Flash. I think one or so every other game is far more reasonable.

[Can_of_corn]

Well Casilla hasn't played 2nd enough to hardly know. Flaherty has made some great plays yes. The ball he dove for against the Yankees the first game Roberts was back was a nice play, and one Roberts would likely not have gotten to. So that makes him below average that he couldnt have gotten to that ball? What about the sweet play Roberts made against Chicago? Flaherty may have not made that play due to the fact that he is a lot slower than Roberts. Does that make him a below average defender? You would say no...so what's the difference?

I have tried to be patient with you but I think it is clear that you are trolling. These are concepts that should not be difficult to understand and yet you keep claiming ignorance while drawing out the conversation.

I am done amusing you.

[CA-ORIOLE]

What is so below average? Give me some examples. I really want to know how bad he is at 2nd base. I watch the same games as everyone else and i see him being average and pretty adequate out there.

Not getting to/making an equivalent amount of plays that an average second baseman makes is below average. I can look at him and see that he's not average pretty easily. He doesn't match up to an average ML second baseman in terms of range, arm and skill. Do you watch baseball and look at the other second baseman around the league? If you do then look at the rosters and refresh your mind a little bit. Do they look quicker, more athletic and have stronger arms than Roberts? Does it look like quite a few balls get just beyond Roberts reach? Does Roberts look quick out there? Does it look like he has an above average arm for I'm a second baseman? Is that anecdotal observation, yes it is. It's also a pretty obvious one imo.

I'm fairly confident the stats will back it up with a larger SS. Now, how bad is he and is he hitting enough are really the issues. Is he below average shouldn't be a question in anyone's mind imo.

[flashjordnk]

You get an antagonistic response from certain members of the fanbase anytime you criticize Roberts in any way.

I think Davis, Markakis, McLouth and Jones all fall within the "average" umbrella. I think Hardy, Machado and Wieters are above average.

Well for example, I think Davis is below average. He makes a nice play from time to time, but I'm generally unimpressed of his awareness around the bag at times. If I said that Davis was a bad defender, I think that'd draw out a certain response. One that might be different if I pointed out I thought he was below average.

I'm just saying...the tone that you used, is going to draw the BRob defenders out. Not saying you trolled them, I don't think you did. Not saying you're wrong. I happen to agree with you. I think the more relevant discussion is around the pop BRob has brought to the table. I've been really happy with his PAs lately and I think the offense was so bad at 2b before the upgrade he brings on that front is worth the defensive risk.

For now I'll take the offense over the defense.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Well Casilla hasn't played 2nd enough to hardly know. Flaherty has made some great plays yes. The ball he dove for against the Yankees the first game Roberts was back was a nice play, and one Roberts would likely not have gotten to. So that makes him below average that he couldnt have gotten to that ball? What about the sweet play Roberts made against Chicago? Flaherty may have not made that play due to the fact that he is a lot slower than Roberts. Does that make him a below average defender? You would say no...so what's the difference?

You're arguing Flaherty has less range than Roberts? Are you kidding me?

[auzzy98]

I have tried to be patient with you but I think it is clear that you are trolling. These are concepts that should not be difficult to understand and yet you keep claiming ignorance while drawing out the conversation.

I am done amusing you.

Patient with me? What the heck are u talking about? U have been disagreeing with me the whole conversation. u just dont have a good answer for my question. It's fine, you can think Roberts is a below average defender, and i will think he is an average defender. We can just agree to disagree.

[auzzy98]

You're arguing Flaherty has less range than Roberts? Are you kidding me?

You are taking that quote out of context, badly.