Orioles Want Pie Added

[JoeyR5]

I don't care if PIE is in the deal or not. I'm just trying to find out if the informstion you were feeding us was bogus or not.

Believe me, I have better things to do than to act like a 5 y/o on a message board.

[33rdst]

Guys we need to give him a break. All of the insiders had the deal going down... we even have a freaking B-Rob appreciation thread. There's no need to take it out on Joey. The fact that he brought it up and confirmed it with the other insiders and then Tony's post seems to imply that his information is quality. Give him a break.

Just look what Belkast said in the "Why B-Rob hasn't been traded" thread yesterday:

"Clearly this trade was going on as multiple people had heard about it including myself. What happened in the end....I don't know! I do know that Tony shouldn't be giving such a hard time about it. All he was trying to do is give this board the information which is what this board always wants. His story was marked with the words Report and sources...multiple sources at that. Something was happening and it is to early to discount that this still may not happen. Long story short...Tony did nothing wrong he was just trying to give this board information as it was being told to him."

I know everyone wants something to happen, but let's chill a little bit. No need to alienate this guy when everyone else thought it was happening too.

For me there is a difference between saying sources have confirmed a deal is done and saying "the paperwork has been sent to MLB". That kind of information suggest some significant insider information. Angelos recalling paperwork from MLB would be a front page story around here. the fact that virtually nothing has come of this in the news is very curious to me.

[33rdst]

Believe me, I have better things to do than to act like a 5 y/o on a message board.

OK I respect that. But unless you can corroberate that Angelos is the one who in fact nixed the deal, I think it's better not to say anything at this time.

[Why Not?]

As for trading Pie in a Roberts deal, there is no way in hell that happens.

You guys are vastly overrating Roberts.

Pie is a 5 tool outfielder, that has been compared to Carlos Beltran, and Vlad Guerrero.

One BA scout said that Pie was the best defensive CF he has EVER seen.

OK, you're getting a little silly now. Pie is a very good prospect and if Hendry says he's untouchable, that's cool. But is it, like, outrageous for McPhail to even ask about him? Like Hendry would just refuse to speak to the Orioles anymore, avoiding their calls, averting his eyes at GM meetings.

If you look long enough, about 700,000 prospects have been compared to Vlad or Beltran. Yet there are only two of those guys. The reality is that Pie MIGHT become a very good major leaguer. But he very well could flame out or become a fifth outfielder for somebody. Much, MUCH more highly-regarded prospects have floundered. It's probably 50-50 that Pie ever has a season as good at Roberts' 2007.

[redwhitenblue]

OK, you're getting a little silly now. Pie is a very good prospect and if Hendry says he's untouchable, that's cool. But is it, like, outrageous for McPhail to even ask about him? Like Hendry would just refuse to speak to the Orioles anymore, avoiding their calls, averting his eyes at GM meetings.

If you look long enough, about 700,000 prospects have been compared to Vlad or Beltran. Yet there are only two of those guys. The reality is that Pie MIGHT become a very good major leaguer. But he very well could flame out or become a fifth outfielder for somebody. Much, MUCH more highly-regarded prospects have floundered. It's probably 50-50 that Pie ever has a season as good at Roberts' 2007.

You're missing a huge point

The Cubs can keep Pie and take the chance that he'll produce very well in CF and keep their decent production from 2B

Or

They can have a decent improvement at 2B and be assured of terrible production from CF

It makes no sense to fill one hole (or in this case, improve a non-hole) while in the process creating another gaping hole

[Why Not?]

You're missing a huge point

The Cubs can keep Pie and take the chance that he'll produce very well in CF and keep their decent production from 2B

Or

They can have a decent improvement at 2B and be assured of terrible production from CF

It makes no sense to fill one hole (or in this case, improve a non-hole) while in the process creating another gaping hole

I'm not missing that point at all. I'm not saying Pie should or shouldn't be in the deal. I hope he is, because he's good. But his poop DOES stink. He could easily become Alex Ochoa.

[olddogger]

You're missing a huge point

The Cubs can keep Pie and take the chance that he'll produce very well in CF and keep their decent production from 2B

Or

They can have a decent improvement at 2B and be assured of terrible production from CF

It makes no sense to fill one hole (or in this case, improve a non-hole) while in the process creating another gaping hole

Wait, haven't the Cubs been telling us that EPat can handle 2B/CF and has great offensive potential?

If what the Cubbies have been telling us is true they lose nothing by giving up Pie because EPat fills that hole for them (well if he is supposed o fill it for us then he certainly can for them, can't he?)

[redwhitenblue]

I'm not missing that point at all. I'm not saying Pie should or shouldn't be in the deal. I hope he is, because he's good. But his poop DOES stink. He could easily become Alex Ochoa.

You were asking Joey if it was that bad that McPhail asked-which Joey never said it was BTW-I'm saying even a failure of a season from Pie is better than what the Cubs have as a backup plan (Sam Fuld, yuck)

[blueberryale77]

You're missing a huge point

The Cubs can keep Pie and take the chance that he'll produce very well in CF and keep their decent production from 2B

Or

They can have a decent improvement at 2B and be assured of terrible production from CF

It makes no sense to fill one hole (or in this case, improve a non-hole) while in the process creating another gaping hole

That's all well and good, but in that case there's no reason for the two teams to deal with each other. As I've said a bunch of times, I don't think the Cubs desperately need Brian Roberts. I don't even think they really need him. He would be a significant upgrade, but not necessarily the one that would make the most sense as a way for the Cubs to spend limited resources. There is no reason for the Orioles to give away one of their best and most popular players without getting a legitimately exciting return just because Lou Piniella wants him and Hendry is friends with MacPhail. The Cubs inquired about their target, the Orioles told them what it would cost. They can either keep negotiating and trying to meet in the middle or they can look elsewhere.

[redwhitenblue]

Wait, haven't the Cubs been telling us that EPat can handle 2B/CF and has great offensive potential?

If what the Cubbies have been telling us is true they lose nothing by giving up Pie because EPat fills that hole for them (well if he is supposed o fill it for us then he certainly can for them, can't he?)

No, I don't think anyone in the organization realistically thinks EP is even an average fielder, he's a horrible 2B and has the smallest of experience in CF-there's almost -0- chance he's acceptable defensively there too

His offense is quite good, potentially great, but he's a poor fielding 2B or DH most likely

[redwhitenblue]

That's all well and good, but in that case there's no reason for the two teams to deal with each other. As I've said a bunch of times, I don't think the Cubs desperately need Brian Roberts. I don't even think they really need him. He would be a significant upgrade, but not necessarily the one that would make the most sense as a way for the Cubs to spend limited resources. There is no reason for the Orioles to give away one of their best and most popular players without getting a legitimately exciting return just because Lou Piniella wants him and Hendry is friends with MacPhail. The Cubs inquired about their target, the Orioles told them what it would cost. They can either keep negotiating and trying to meet in the middle or they can look elsewhere.

Well we agree on one thing, the Cubs don't need Roberts

He's an upgrade at 2B, but a downgrade in pitching depth and elsewhere depending on the players going over-which overall for the team is probably only a slight upgrade at best

You may not like the packages being named, but Gallagher, Marshall, Cedeno and Murton are all excellent players (Murton and Cedeno are average or above average defensively). Gallagher would be the prize of the package with Marshall being more of the sure-thing solid pitcher-but not fantastic in any way

[olddogger]

No, I don't think anyone in the organization realistically thinks EP is even an average fielder, he's a horrible 2B and has the smallest of experience in CF-there's almost -0- chance he's acceptable defensively there too

His offense is quite good, potentially great, but he's a poor fielding 2B or DH most likely

I fully agree with you.

What I was pointing out that the Cubs are singing EPat's praises to AM yet telling us that he isn't good enough to replace a player we're asking for - whom they publicly speculate will need to be a platoon player this season.

They want it both ways.

[redwhitenblue]

I fully agree with you.

What I was pointing out that the Cubs are singing EPat's praises to AM yet telling us that he isn't good enough to replace a player we're asking for - whom they publicly speculate will need to be a platoon player this season.

They want it both ways.

EP would probably be better off in the O's system(not knowing their farm system) because the Cubs have multiple 2B in the system (namely Tony Thomas) who are probably even better-as surprising as that is

His stick would likely leave you not missing Roberts-though he won't steal as much

The difference is Pie's younger, and still young enough to improve his L-L matchup splits(really his main weakness).

Pie is a potential .900 OPS CF, that's simply more valuable than a good hitting 2B...and EP has no chance to play CF in my mind, he's just not very good defensively

He's the anti-Corey

[waveland007]

Well we agree on one thing, the Cubs don't need Roberts

He's an upgrade at 2B, but a downgrade in pitching depth and elsewhere depending on the players going over-which overall for the team is probably only a slight upgrade at best

You may not like the packages being named, but Gallagher, Marshall, Cedeno and Murton are all excellent players (Murton and Cedeno are average or above average defensively). Gallagher would be the prize of the package with Marshall being more of the sure-thing solid pitcher-but not fantastic in any way

I agree with this except on the part saying Murton is average defensively. He is a butcher in the OF, he has no arm and if I have to see another ball roll by him in the OF on a hopper I'll snap lol. He turns line outs because of bad angles and reaction into doubles and singles.

[redwhitenblue]

I agree with this except on the part saying Murton is average defensively. He is a butcher in the OF, he has no arm and if I have to see another ball roll by him in the OF on a hopper I'll snap lol. He turns line outs because of bad angles and reaction into doubles and singles.

One big clue...don't use your memory to judge players

Murton's first year in RF (first year ever in RF) was barely below average, in LF he's actually an above average fielder

Rate2 of 110 in LF, 94 in RF (again, first time he's ever played RF)