Orioles Want Pie Added

[Why Not?]

I fully agree with you.

What I was pointing out that the Cubs are singing EPat's praises to AM yet telling us that he isn't good enough to replace a player we're asking for - whom they publicly speculate will need to be a platoon player this season.

They want it both ways.

Are they? If there is one thing that's clear, it's that we don't know what's going on.

[japes121]

Bigbird said it was his opinion.

Frankly, I don't think that deal was ever very close. You don't from accepting that offer to asking for Pie, which is what the word on the street is now. Sounds like that was just bad info all around. PA had nothing to do with it, IMO.

Props to you man, I'm impressed with the maturity and rationality of your answers. By the way, I agree with you. IMO, it just does not make sense that AM does not have PA's approval from the start, despite what we are hearing.

[waveland007]

One big clue...don't use your memory to judge players

Murton's first year in RF (first year ever in RF) was barely below average, in LF he's actually an above average fielder

Rate2 of 110 in LF, 94 in RF (again, first time he's ever played RF)

I'm not using memory or a particular horrible play to label him for life as a bad fielder. That's what a lot of people do with Aram, they remember how bad his D was in Pitt and they think nothing has changed although he is now outstanding at 3rd. I make my judgement on the fact that late in games he's pulled for D and the fact that anytime a ball is hit to him you hold your breath. Sometimes numbers don't really truly express the players D. He's not a confident fielder it's obvious and I think he is best suited to be a DH. Only problem with that is unless it's an OBP team like say Oakland I'm not sure his lack of power can carry him.

[bigbird]

Yep that was me, I also confirmed it with bigbird.

I told you the deal was with PGA....

[Sports Guy]

Before you start ripping Cubsfan2008 or whatever, look at what the guy above him had to say.

As for trading Pie in a Roberts deal, there is no way in hell that happens.

You guys are vastly overrating Roberts.

Pie is a 5 tool outfielder, that has been compared to Carlos Beltran, and Vlad Guerrero.

One BA scout said that Pie was the best defensive CF he has EVER seen.

As for Gallagher being called garbage, the kid was the 2nd youngest guy in the Bigs last year, and has been compared to Jake Peavy a couple years ago, and a poor mans Greg Maddux with more velocity.

I'm rooting for this not to happen, as Gally would be a lift to our rotation.

Not as much as you and other Cubs fans overrate Pie.

[redwhitenblue]

Not as much as you and other Cubs fans overrate Pie.

Overrating a 22 year old who's demolished all minor leagues is a little more acceptable than overrating a 31 year old 2B who has probably hit his peak (may have 1-2 more years left of it)

[redwhitenblue]

I'm not using memory or a particular horrible play to label him for life as a bad fielder. That's what a lot of people do with Aram, they remember how bad his D was in Pitt and they think nothing has changed although he is now outstanding at 3rd. I make my judgement on the fact that late in games he's pulled for D and the fact that anytime a ball is hit to him you hold your breath. Sometimes numbers don't really truly express the players D. He's not a confident fielder it's obvious and I think he is best suited to be a DH. Only problem with that is unless it's an OBP team like say Oakland I'm not sure his lack of power can carry him.

That's not a good way to judge, for instance Ryan Theriot is not pulled for defensive purposes late in games, but he's below average defensively

[Sports Guy]

Overrating a 22 year old who's demolished all minor leagues is a little more acceptable than overrating a 31 year old 2B who has probably hit his peak (may have 1-2 more years left of it)

This post is a perfect example.

Pie had a great OPS in a half season or so in AA and had a great OPS his second go around at AAA...Other than that, his career MiL OPS would be in the 700s...Hardly demolishing.

BRob isn't 31 until next October.

And you only need BRob to have 2 more years of peak, as that would be the years he is signed for.

[bigbird]

Overrating a 22 year old who's demolished all minor leagues is a little more acceptable than overrating a 31 year old 2B who has probably hit his peak (may have 1-2 more years left of it)

You have to remember we're dealing with Hendry here. He's probably the brightest bulb since Syd Thrift. Did he actually give us three players for 1 month of Steve Trachsel???? cCan't blame AM for trying to milk him in a Roberts deal.

[waveland007]

That's not a good way to judge, for instance Ryan Theriot is not pulled for defensive purposes late in games, but he's below average defensively

That might be because we have no better alternative lol. It comes down to go with Theriot with bad range but money if he gets in front or go with Cedeno who has sick range, but often makes bad throws and shows his youth. Lee can pick-um but he's not 12 feet wide and 12 feet tall.

[redwhitenblue]

You have to remember we're dealing with Hendry here. He's probably the brightest bulb since Syd Thrift. Did he actually give us three players for 1 month of Steve Trachsel???? cCan't blame AM for trying to milk him in a Roberts deal.

Was it 3?...I thought it was just Cherry and Moore

BTW-that was the worst trade I can remember ever

[blueberryale77]

Overrating a 22 year old who's demolished all minor leagues is a little more acceptable than overrating a 31 year old 2B who has probably hit his peak (may have 1-2 more years left of it)

Overrating is overrating, it doesn't matter who you're overrating, just by how much. However, it's much easier to overrate a prospect than an established player because with the established player you have a much stronger record of what they have done at the Major League level from which to project at least short-term future performance. While minor league stats are certainly somewhat predictive of big league performance, there's a lot more margin for error there. And by the way, Roberts just turned 30 a couple months ago. I'm 5 weeks younger than he is, so I don't appreciate being aged.

[Sports Guy]

Was it 3?...I thought it was just Cherry and Moore

BTW-that was the worst trade I can remember ever

Renshaw was added later.

[japes121]

Overrating is overrating, it doesn't matter who you're overrating, just by how much. However, it's much easier to overrate a prospect than an established player because with the established player you have a much stronger record of what they have done at the Major League level from which to project at least short-term future performance. While minor league stats are certainly somewhat predictive of big league performance, there's a lot more margin for error there. And by the way, Roberts just turned 30 a couple months ago. I'm 5 weeks younger than he is, so I don't appreciate being aged.

Agree 100%. Roberts is wayyyy more of a sure thing than pie. Additionally, regardless of the ultimate outcome, Roberts will surely contribute more to a contending team over the next two years than pie would.

[redwhitenblue]

This post is a perfect example.

Pie had a great OPS in a half season or so in AA and had a great OPS his second go around at AAA...Other than that, his career MiL OPS would be in the 700s...Hardly demolishing.

BRob isn't 31 until next October.

And you only need BRob to have 2 more years of peak, as that would be the years he is signed for.

Since he turned 20 in '05, his OPS is sitting around ~.850 in the minors

His numbers from his age 17 and 18 don't really concern me

EDIT: My mistake on Roberts age