Enough! Jan 11th and Still Nothing...

[Fla_O'sfan]

Have patience. Just look at last off season when everyone was crying at this point. Then the o's signed Russ Canzler and Freddy Garcia! There still could be a couple exciting moves like these!

[Moose Milligan]

OK smart guy. I'll give you a 110 M payroll. What would be your moves so far this off season?

That doesn't really address anything I typed there, now does it? You automatically assume I'm looking to increase payroll when my post said nothing of the sort. Apparently if you're pissed about the offseason so far you're beating the increase payroll drums and that's the only way you think you can make the team better. I'm not sure which is more lazy...thinking that the only way to make this team better is to increase payroll or thinking that if people are pissed about the offseason they automatically must mean they want to go on a spending spree.

I'm not really one to play armchair GM...I don't whip out my calculator and try to add and subtract payroll and hypothesize who we could sign for what. I understand that's fun for some people, but it's not fun for me. So as far as you being very generous and giving me a $110 million payroll, I can tell you that it'd go towards a 35,000 square foot house, a Maybach and flying in some Victoria's Secret models. May not be the smartest, but it'd be damn fun.

What I was hoping for was some reasonable, smart signings (not these hope and a prayer AAAA guys) and some interesting trades. I liked the Lough deal, I think he can be pretty good. I like Ryan Webb, I hope he can be a valuable arm. Unfortunately there just doesn't seem to be much of a plan or a direction right now. We've got a good core of guys but what's next?

Like I said, people will cry and moan if the Orioles are having a horrible regular season, but it seems off limits to some to criticize the offseason until it's "over", whenever that is.

[isestrex]

There's a difference between overpaying and being ridiculous with contracts like Cano, Ellsbury and Choo. At the least Arroyo gives us a chance to win, Morales gives us a chance to win. if the dodgers are hell bent on signing tanaka which of the other 85 starters might they be willing to deal? What happens if Bundy, Gausman, ERod or Harvey turn out like all the other alleged Calvary saviors we've pinned our hopes on? What happens next year with kakes, do you for one minute PA lets him walk? If not now, when? PA has an extra 25 mil and we have nothing to show for it.

Well, you're new here so you probably aren't aware I've been leading the "sign Arroyo" bandwagon since November. I agree he would be a very solid signing that would help bring much needed stability to the rotation. Any time you can spend cheap money on a 200+ innings eater, you have to pounce.

That being said, it's possible I misunderstood your original argument. I quoted the words "This was the year to spend some money" and your first post in this thread was all about how big bad King Peter wasn't letting Dan spend big bucks. Presuming that if he was allowed to spend more money "This was the year" which supplied an ample amount of high quality free agents looking for middling contracts.

Bronson Arroyo does not fit into the "if only we had money" argument. He's already going to come cheap (i.e 2y/$20m).

[Three Run Homer]

There's still time (and money) to make this a good offseason. Sign Arroyo and the rotation becomes better than it was at the end of last season. Sign Rodney and the bullpen is at least as good as it was last season. If you don't want to give Rodney big money, sign or trade for a good setup man who you think can close. I don't think there's a big bat out there that makes sense, but maybe you can trade for a promising LH bat who is blocked somewhere--someone mentioned Scott Van Slyke for instance.

The problem is that every time Buck or Dan talks about how great TJ Macfarland and Henry Urrutia and Tommy Hunter are, it leads me to suspect that the plan is to do something small, like signing Jason Hammel for 1 year and $5 million, and then pack it in.

[scOtt]

There's still time (and money) to make this a good offseason. Sign Arroyo and the rotation becomes better than it was at the end of last season. Sign Rodney and the bullpen is at least as good as it was last season. If you don't want to give Rodney big money, sign or trade for a good setup man who you think can close. I don't think there's a big bat out there that makes sense, but maybe you can trade for a promising LH bat who is blocked somewhere--someone mentioned Scott Van Slyke for instance.

The problem is that every time Buck or Dan talks about how great TJ Macfarland and Henry Urrutia and Tommy Hunter are, it leads me to suspect that the plan is to do something small, like signing Jason Hammel for 1 year and $5 million, and then pack it in.

THAT'S the company line. Dan and Buck's company line, not PA's. "What we have right now." Constant mantra. Not at all counting on any deal they're working on, just right now. We have X and Y and Z. And we like them.

But that's all subject to change at any time.

[Jon]

Fans have every right to be upset. Some of you may not agree, nor like it. But given the O's history and the quotes we have from years past pertaining to the EXACT situation the O's are in now (i.e. MASN money and when the club was to become competitive, they would add difference-making pieces), dismissing the views of those who are upset ignores and is in direct contradiction to this organization's history, past actions and their own words.

Now, if ownership had changed during any of these many years, sure, then you could argue that history would be far less likely to serve as an accurate gauge in determining future outcomes. But as we all know, we are very much still stuck with the same owner showing us the very same behaviors we have come to know and resent and which have hamstrung this organization in many ways and for many years.

Last year, we stood pat, despite many of us kicking and screaming and then witnessing an all too predictable outcome.This year, we continue to bear witness to a repeat performance in inaction and a complete disregard in honoring past promises as all we seem to here is "resource allocation" and "X or Y player wants too much money or too many years." Well, some us us remember the past and what was said and it upsets us.

Fans are antsy. Hell, some fans are downright livid and how can anyone blame them? They wait 14 years, finally see their team defy the odds and become competitive, only to watch ownership spend the past year and a half clipping coupons and making remarks that directly contradict previous quotes that were easy to make when this team wallowed in mediocrity, but suddenly never mentioned now that we are competitive.

You don't have to like the complaining, and I get why it can get annoying. But let's not pretend that it's irrational or not rooted in history and reality, shall we? Fans have a right and many reasons to be upset.

[scOtt]

Fans have every right to be upset. Some of you may not agree, nor like it. But given the O's history and the quotes we have from years past pertaining to the EXACT situation the O's are in now (i.e. MASN money and when the club was to become competitive, they would add difference-making pieces), dismissing the views of those who are upset ignores and is in direct contradiction to this organization's history, past actions and their own words.

Now, if ownership had changed during any of these many years, sure, then you could argue that history would be far less likely to serve as an accurate gauge in determining future outcomes. But as we all know, we are very much still stuck with the same owner showing us the very same behaviors we have come to know and resent and which have hamstrung this organization in many ways and for many years.

Last year, we stood pat, despite many of us kicking and screaming and then witnessing an all too predictable outcome.This year, we continue to bear witness to a repeat performance in inaction and a complete disregard in honoring past promises as all we seem to here is "resource allocation" and "X or Y player wants too much money or too many years." Well, some us us remember the past and what was said and it upsets us.

Fans are antsy. Hell, some fans are downright livid and how can anyone blame them? They wait 14 years, finally see their team defy the odds and become competitive, only to watch ownership spend the past year and a half clipping coupons and making remarks that directly contradict previous quotes that were easy to make when this team wallowed in mediocrity, but suddenly never mentioned now that we are competitive.

You don't have to like the complaining, and I get why it can get annoying. But let's not pretend that it's irrational or not rooted in history and reality, shall we? Fans have a right and many reasons to be upset.

You really hold them to what any of them said to the press??? Like they said it in a courtroom??? HONOR what they said?

:rofl:

Ya'll need to study business 101. And some Psychology too.

[Rene88]

Fans have every right to be upset. Some of you may not agree, nor like it. But given the O's history and the quotes we have from years past pertaining to the EXACT situation the O's are in now (i.e. MASN money and when the club was to become competitive, they would add difference-making pieces), dismissing the views of those who are upset ignores and is in direct contradiction to this organization's history, past actions and their own words.

Now, if ownership had changed during any of these many years, sure, then you could argue that history would be far less likely to serve as an accurate gauge in determining future outcomes. But as we all know, we are very much still stuck with the same owner showing us the very same behaviors we have come to know and resent and which have hamstrung this organization in many ways and for many years.

Last year, we stood pat, despite many of us kicking and screaming and then witnessing an all too predictable outcome.This year, we continue to bear witness to a repeat performance in inaction and a complete disregard in honoring past promises as all we seem to here is "resource allocation" and "X or Y player wants too much money or too many years." Well, some us us remember the past and what was said and it upsets us.

Fans are antsy. Hell, some fans are downright livid and how can anyone blame them? They wait 14 years, finally see their team defy the odds and become competitive, only to watch ownership spend the past year and a half clipping coupons and making remarks that directly contradict previous quotes that were easy to make when this team wallowed in mediocrity, but suddenly never mentioned now that we are competitive.

You don't have to like the complaining, and I get why it can get annoying. But let's not pretend that it's irrational or not rooted in history and reality, shall we? Fans have a right and many reasons to be upset.

Good post sir.

[Jon]

You really hold them to what any of them said to the press??? Like they said it in a courtroom??? HONOR what they said?

:rofl:

Ya'll need to study business 101. And some Psychology too.

Well, I have studied business, make my living in the corporate world and well, yea, I hold men and women to their word. Crazy, huh?

[scOtt]

Well, I have studied business, make my living in the corporate world and well, yea, I hold men and women to their word. Crazy, huh?

In the press? You're as naive as I've ever seen! Yeah, Dan's going to spout off and shoot his whole wad in the press. Your business acumen included some PR training?

Thought not.

EDIT: Maybe some poker in your spare time?

[Jon]

In the press? You're as naive as I've ever seen! Yeah, Dan's going to spout off and shoot his whole wad in the press. Your business acumen included some PR training?

Thought not.

Words can be cheap, no doubt about it. But words can also provide excellant insight into one's character.

In respect to the O's, their actions clearly demonstrate some dishonesty and/or incompetence. So when I see and hear this, I hold them to this. Nothing more, nothing less.

In terms of you hurling insults at me when I was only sharing my opinion, and doing so respectfully and within board rules, the leads me to begin forming certain conclusions about your character that I hope and assume aren't true. Heck, on one of my first days here a decade ago, I had a question. I can't remember what it was, but you were the first to answer it for me. I got a good memory. I always respected you for that. Let's have a conversation like adults, shall we? And leave the petty stuff alone.

[scOtt]

Words can be cheap, no doubt about it. But words can also provide excellant insight into one's character.

In respect to the O's, their actions clearly demonstrate some dishonesty and/or incompetence. So when I see and hear this, I hold them to this. Nothing more, nothing less.

In terms of you hurling insults at me when I was only sharing my opinion, and doing so respectfully and within board rules, the leads me to begin forming certain conclusions about your character that I hope and assume aren't true. Heck, on one of my first days here a decade ago, I had a question. I can't remember what it was, but you were the first to answer it for me. I got a good memory. I always respected you for that. Let's have a conversation like adults, shall we? And leave the petty stuff alone.

I cast no aspersions on you, except that you're naive. If you're going to act like Dan and Buck are held strictly to every worthless time-filling word they speak in the press, elsewise they are liars and PA flunkkies, dishonorable (which you definitely said!) then I have nothing else to tell you. Nothing else to say to you.

[Jon]

Good post sir.

This isn't always an easy place to say such things, as you can clearly see by the other response I got. But luckily the mods and the owner support such free speech and even share their kinship with the dark side every now and again.

[scOtt]

Ok, I'm the bad guy here.

Outta here. I have better things to do.

[TonySoprano]

In the press? You're as naive as I've ever seen! Yeah, Dan's going to spout off and shoot his whole wad in the press. Your business acumen included some PR training?

Thought not.

How do you decide what to believe and what not to believe from Duquette? I tend to take him at his word as a straight shooter until I'm given a reason not to do so. Now if we're going to get into the semantics of do I "hold him" to what he says, then the answer is "no" but with a caveat. That caveat is a large one. You'll never convince me that he isn't operating under constraints from his boss. Show me any GM who will throw his boss under the bus, and I'll show you an ex-GM.

With Angelos, I have too numerous reasons not to believe whatever pronouncements he makes.