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Greg

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How is Joe Saunders reliable? He was anything but in August and September.

He was 4-3 for the O's in late August-September and a ERA of 3.30. In September he went 4-2, with wins against TOR, NY, BOS, and SEA. He had 2.75 ERA during September. In the post season, he went 1-0 and a ERA of 1.59.

So a he pitched above .500 for the O's, ERA in the low 3s.

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You would get Fister for a year and then the compensation pick when he leaves. Not a stupid move at all.

It's a stupid move. You seriously think the O's could replace ERod by a draft pick? He's a lefty starter. Do you know how hard that is to find? Hell, do you know how hard it's to find a lefty pitching near 95mph from the windup and 93-94 from the stretch? Nat's can afford that trade giving up Robbie Ray. Robbie Ray didn't have a great A ball season. O's can't walk away from ERod, especially the season he put up last year between Fredrick and Bowie.

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Ever heard of something called a contract extension? You know where you lock up the asset acquired in the transaction. I like ERod as much as anyone but I could see moving him in the right deal. I'm not sure Fister is in fact that deal, I was just rattling off a few possibilities in response to a question.

O's would never sign Fister to a contract extension. That's fantasy. Well rattle of ones based in reality.

I said somewhere in this thread that I would sign Joe Saunders as a LOOGY. But signing Joe Saunders as a member of our starting rotation is lousy. Joe's August and September performance was atrocious. It's amazing to me that people are defending this stuff. I really wish DD had resigned Freddie Garcia just so I could watch some of you guys shill away.

Actually, I posted Joe's numbers for us in August-Oct in 2012.

This statement is far from a fact. I'm on record here when we first acquired Lough saying he looked pretty good when we played KC last season, but Lough profiles as a 4th outfielder type and he is far far from a sure thing. I really hope your faith here pays off since the ball club will be better off, but I think I know how this story ends. If you think an offseason where, given the needs of the club, the signature addition of David Lough constitutes an improvement, then we are so far apart philosophically that we should just end the discussion here.

The discussion was over when you said trade ERod for Fister. Lough has upside and is a solid replacement for McLouth. Better Defensively and is statistically identical to McLouth in batting.

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It's a stupid move. You seriously think the O's could replace ERod by a draft pick? He's a lefty starter. Do you know how hard that is to find? Hell, do you know how hard it's to find a lefty pitching near 95mph from the windup and 93-94 from the stretch? Nat's can afford that trade giving up Robbie Ray. Robbie Ray didn't have a great A ball season. O's can't walk away from ERod, especially the season he put up last year between Fredrick and Bowie.

Actually their stats are pretty similar in A ball except Robbie Ray had more strikeouts per 9 innines.

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Actually their stats are pretty similar in A ball except Robbie Ray had more strikeouts per 9 innines.

Robbie Ray gives up more HRs, more Walks, and more wild pitches. Smells of lack of control.

Both started pitching at the same time in the minors and ERod has the better stats in ERA, K to B, HR/9, and so on.

Throw on top Nats have a better chance of signing Fister next year. It works for the Nats. Doesn't work for the O's knowing Fister isn't gonna get a deal longer then 3 years and in $30m range (just a guess) from the O's. He'll walk and move to another team. So we lost ERod and have to find another lefty starter who could be pitching in the majors comes Sept this year or more then likely 2015.

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He was 4-3 for the O's in late August-September and a ERA of 3.30. In September he went 4-2, with wins against TOR, NY, BOS, and SEA. He had 2.75 ERA during September. In the post season, he went 1-0 and a ERA of 1.59.

So a he pitched above .500 for the O's, ERA in the low 3s.

What he did for the Os was outside his recent track record. So expecting his numbers to be comparable is a reach. I doubt he is as bad as he finished the year unless he's injured and in that case he's unlikely to pass the physical. His hits 50 more than IPs is just plain bad for a MLB pitcher.

That said I can't believe that's the best we can do!

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O's would never sign Fister to a contract extension. That's fantasy. Well rattle of ones based in reality.

Actually, I posted Joe's numbers for us in August-Oct in 2012.

The discussion was over when you said trade ERod for Fister. Lough has upside and is a solid replacement for McLouth. Better Defensively and is statistically identical to McLouth in batting.

Thanks for the updates Dan. Also, thanks for giving us a solid 3rd-4th place team.

The Orioles never made a push last offseason for Saunders. When, at the time, I asked one club official why, I was told the Orioles felt that Saunders had given them his best in 2012 -- that for a brief, high-intensity period, the gutsy Saunders was fantastic. But the Orioles weren?t convinced he could deliver similar performances for a full season -- or two -- at Camden Yards.
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First off.. I've never said the team shouldn't spent money. I look for value. I find spending $12-$15m on a pitcher who has a bad elbow down right retarded. I also find it retarded to just spend money to say we improved. Money doesn't equal improvement. Ask Toronto, NY, and Angels.

I never down played it. I said that we've all had a drunken moment in which we've done something stupid. I also said, We haven't heard a damn thing about Delmon Young behavior since then. So it leads me to believe he had problems with Alcohol.

I said, he was solid for us when he did pitch in 2012 for the O's. Something you want out of 5th starter/ fill in guy.

That is a huge difference..

First off... come on really? Please don't throw the "r" word around as an insult. All of us (you included) are above that.

You can cite examples where spending money on player was dumb, and I can cite examples where signing players in free agency was smart. Depends on what example you use. For instance, BOS signing Manny, NYY signing CC (say what you want now, he helped them win a WS), Angels signing Vlad, Texas signing Beltre, heck Tejada did a nice job for us the first time he played with us. It all depends on spending wisely - what is unacceptable is not doing a damned thing while everyone else reloads - look at KC - solid core, and they supplement that with FA - that is the correct model to follow.

Second - you continue to cite to the smallest of sample sizes for Joe Saunders - again, while what he did in 2012 was adequate and fun for us to watch, he posted an ERA north of 5 in Seattle last year.

And you say all we need is a number 5 starter? Tillman is very good, has only done it for a year and a half. Chen has injury concerns, and we all know he tires come August September. Gonzalez is good and I love him, but he always seems to need extra rest. Norris is your four/five starter, and the rest of the options are huge question marks. Sure seems to me you need to add someone who is more than a Joe Saunders question mark - seems like you need a Burnett type, eh?

As for Delmon: defend him all you want - don't forget this is the guy who chucked a freaking bat at an umpire too. The anti-Semitic episode happened after that, so he didn't seem to learn how to control himself after the bat incident.

Please address all my points in turn. Thanks.

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And this is why I am glad you aren't DD. Throwing ERod away for a one year rental of 30yr old is down right STUPID. Eduardo Rodriguez is a lefty that has upside.

Fister is not a one-year rental. He's not eligible for free agency until after 2015.

Also, Fister is a better pitcher than you're giving him credit for. He's a ground ball machine with low walk rates-- he would've been a great fit in front of the O's defense.

Worth giving up Eduardo Rodriguez for? Maybe, maybe not, but it's a much more reasonable trade than you're suggesting.

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Thanks for the info... but I STRONGLY just want the season to get here. So sick and tired of all the tweets, talking head speculation and BS.

Just play freakin' ball.

Amen. After the Winter Meetings, these discussions all seem to go down a horrible rabbit-hole. It makes for some interesting reading, but it's really only entertainment. Very little factual information involved.

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Thanks for the updates Dan. Also, thanks for giving us a solid 3rd-4th place team.

A 3rd-4th place team in baseball. Baseball is a funny sport. O's showed that in 2012. Being a 85 win team on paper gives you a shot for the playoffs because you only need a few extra wins off paper to make the playoffs.

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