Scout tells SI: Jimenez overrated, Tillman underrated

[weams]

I realize this. But you also can't ever just let a player be.

Yes you can. In fact, it works quit often.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think some folks are down on Bundy because Gausman looked better last spring training.

I actually like Bundy better. More pitchability imo.

[AdamK]

Yes you can. In fact, it works quit often.

Ugh okay fine.

I am trying to make a point about correctable things that pitching coaches are looking for, but yes, some guys will do worse if a coach tries to change too much. Ubaldo may be that guy, one of many.

Is it opening day yet? All these rain outs and guessing about Almanzar, Aceves, Young et al have me in a ground pulp state.

[scOtt]

Some pitchers just have weird mechanics you can't fix. When you do they screw up their game.. That happen to Jimenez in Cleveland. They wanted to make him something he wasn't and he forgot how to pitch.

I may be wrong but I think that's the complete opposite of what happened. He was injured early on. Had trouble when he came back but Cleveland's PC made a slight change and he had a great second half.

[Old#5fan]

Jason Hammel is also pitching in a bigger ballpark at wrigley and will be playing in a divison that has maybe two playoff potential teams compared to the 3-4 possible playoff teams in the AL east.

That is so, but I will go a step further and make a statement/prediction that when Hammel was healthy as an Oriole his stats including wins and losses, ERA, etc. will prove to be better than Ubaldo's this season.

This way, nobody can say it was because of pitching in a weaker league/division. I just don't think Ubaldo is the answer. He's a slightly better version (less erratic) than Daniel Cabrera.

[Can_of_corn]

That is so, but I will go a step further and make a statement/prediction that when Hammel was healthy as an Oriole his stats including wins and losses, ERA, etc. will prove to be better than Ubaldo's this season.

This way, nobody can say it was because of pitching in a weaker league/division. I just don't think Ubaldo is the answer. He's a slightly better version (less erratic) than Daniel Cabrera.

Wasn't Hammel pretty healthy in 2013?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Wasn't Hammel pretty healthy in 2013?

I don't think he was. I believe he had ongoing issues with his knee or at least had developed mechanical flaws from lacking confidence to more fully stress it.

[PA724_Oriole]

That is so, but I will go a step further and make a statement/prediction that when Hammel was healthy as an Oriole his stats including wins and losses, ERA, etc. will prove to be better than Ubaldo's this season.

This way, nobody can say it was because of pitching in a weaker league/division. I just don't think Ubaldo is the answer. He's a slightly better version (less erratic) than Daniel Cabrera.

Wins and losses is a BS stat, we all know that...I can also argue that the blue jays and yankees offenses will be better this year than last. Not to.mention last year was Hammels second.or third.year in the Os uni and ballpark...so I would hope his third year there would be better than.Ubaldos first.

But we could go back and forth forever, but the point is Ubaldo was brought in to give.us depth and stability to the rotation not to be compared to guys we let walk. Its better to have lost Hammel and.got Ubaldo rather than losing Hammel and not getting anyone.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think he was. I believe he had ongoing issues with his knee or at least had developed mechanical flaws from lacking confidence to more fully stress it.

March 01 2013

“Nice to be out there with two good knees,’’ Hammel said. “Very, very happy that the results were good. There’s still stuff to work on but it was a good start. Good first one.”

Hammel was on his way to establishing himself as the Orioles’ staff ace when his 2012 season was interrupted by a piece of floating cartilage in his right knee. He was sidelined twice and eventually returned to deliver two solid performances in the American League Division Series against the New York Yankees, but he says his leg is much stronger than it was in the playoffs.

“It’s night and day,’’ Hammel said. “I can feel my lower half. ... I felt outstanding.

I think he was healthy but just not very good in 2013.

[PA724_Oriole]

I don't think he was. I believe he had ongoing issues with his knee or at least had developed mechanical flaws from lacking confidence to more fully stress it.

And even if he wasnt, wouldnt you rather have a inconsistent Ubaldo rather than a hurt again healthy again Hammel?

[CA-ORIOLE]

March 01 2013

I think he was healthy but just not very good in 2013.

Yeah the date on your reference is 01 March before he began to really stress it. There was ongoing discussion about this throughout the year and it was pretty obvious that his mechanics weren't the same from watching him imo.

[PA724_Oriole]

And.to the other part of this thread. Just because.Tillman isnt talked about.alot in the media doesnt.mean he is underrated. Hes the Os opening.day starter two years running. Im sure the Os organization and fan base know his value and if the outside.world doesnt, then good.

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah the date on your reference is 01 March before he began to really stress it. There was ongoing discussion about this throughout the year and it was pretty obvious that his mechanics weren't the same from watching him imo.

I always take what the player says with a grain of salt.

I just don't want Oldfan to pick and choose which Hammel starts he will count.

[Can_of_corn]

And.to the other part of this thread. Just because.Tillman isnt talked about.alot in the media doesnt.mean he is underrated. Hes the Os opening.day starter two years running. Im sure the Os organization and fan base know his value and if the outside.world doesnt, then good.

Tillman didn't start opening day last year. Hammel did.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I always take what the player says with a grain of salt.

I just don't want Oldfan to pick and choose which Hammel starts he will count.

I don't think any of it came from Hammel. i just recall pieces of it being leaked out. The O's can be pretty cryptic about injuries as you know. It just seemed pretty obvious to me that something was wrong with him last year. Then again, maybe I'm biased as I was quite high on Hammel myself and ready to extend him after 2012.