Hardy confused from lack of extension talk

[Stotle]

Just that I don't expect him to play at all this season and yet the O's are paying him money that they could have easily avoided paying him while letting him accrue service time while on the DL.

Am I wrong in thinking that he is unlikely to contribute this season? (or ever again really)

To me that is taking care of a player.

You mean the Orioles could have cut him and paid him only a portion of his guaranteed salary?

[weams]

That's what's a little confusing. I thought Duq did a nice job when he got here of recognizing his weakness and putting good people around him to make up for that weakness, like Brady, etc. I'm not sure who actually goes and talks to the agents and all that, though.

Not all agents. This agent. With this player. Isn't this Brady on the point?

[Can_of_corn]

You mean the Orioles could have cut him and paid him only a portion of his guaranteed salary?

Or not tendered him a contract in the first place.

Either really.

[foxfield]

I think that the points made here on BOTH sides are interesting and basically correct, yes both sides. This is similar to several folks giving eyewitness reports and the accounts not totally lining up.

I disagree with Frobby saying essentially that DD is/has handled himself in a classless way. However, Frobby is a smart guy and his basis for that is factually sound as it goes to being true to your word. I think the gray area with DD/JJ Hardy is this. There WAS a meeting. Just a basic set the table kind of meeting. Something, either the agent said, or perhaps as others have mentioned, the new commitments, or Machado's health or Flaherty et al, may have caused DD to take a pause. That is not only within his right, but it's prudent. We don't know why, we only speculate as to the cause(s).

To his credit, JJ publically says he is frustrated and still wants to stay here. He gets asked these questions everyday. There is almost no way to answer them and look good. I think they way he is handling this is the mark of a leader. I hope we get it done, but am open to moving on too.

The Orioles have had some public issues since DD came to town. However, we have gone from the absolute joke of MLB to a contender. While he most certainly did not obtain all of the players, he said on day one, he planned to win and he has done so. Players clearly are willing to sign here, and the owner is willing to commit money that he has seemed unwilling to do until now.

One cannot debate feelings. You feel how you feel. Frobby and Stolte are probably two of my favorite posters and I feel they are among our most knowledgeable folks. They have every right to feel cautious or concerned. I do wish the classless comment had not been made, because personally, I feel the organization has made so much improvement in how it handles every aspect of the Oriole organization that it is literally light years ahead of where it was. However, I do not mind either of these gentlemen having a higher bar for DD, Buck, Angelos etc.

I fall on the more optimistic side of this debate, but doing so allows me the pleasure of seeing the other side taken by Frobby, Stolte and others as simply holding an even higher standard. Which I honestly believe DD would tell you is where he is trying to be in order to have this club where it needs to be long term. So to me this is a debate where both sides are probably correct. The optimist sees where we are, the less optimistic is pushing us to where we need to be. For me they both work.

Have a great day and Cito still Sucks!!!!

[wildcard]

Because I believe what JJ is saying is true. The only thing I'm assuming is that JJ is not a liar.

I do think that is the whole story. Landis and DD may have discussed the length of contract. Three or four years. JJ is not goes to discuss that. All he is saying is the discussion has not moved forward.

JJ definitely said he wants to know if he was going to stay at shortstop. He wants it worked out before a contract is signed. Did that affect DD's thinking. We don't know.

What is happening with the development of Flaherty, Schoop and Lombardozzi can definitely be affecting Hardy. Hardy probably will not talk about that.

So making Hardy's statements the focus of your position is not an inclusive way to go. No one has to be lying here. But all the cards are not on the table for us to see.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I agree with you there. But successful businesses treat their employees with respect, especially the good employees.

Businesses don't hire (or even retain) people they can't afford and that aren't efficient for their business. We have done too much of that in the past. I don't see us doing that in the future.

I think the organization treats it's players and personnel very well from my vantage point.

[Stotle]

Or not tendered him a contract in the first place.

Either really.

Wasn't he playing earlier in the spring when they tendered him a contract? Or was he never suited up this year?

[Tx Oriole]

I like DD but I do think he should have talked with Hardy. Let him know about

what the

plans are. Either to extend or not extend him. Hardy has been a faithful player to

the team and organization. He deserves that much. IMO

[weams]

If you are walking away than you don't want them. I'm talking about players you want to sign, and instead they choose to walk away.

See, for me, it is such a fine line. It's all about cost value relationships. And the monies get so crazy here, and especially the time, that I almost think that preserving flexibility is the strong position. And all this is from someone who wants Hardy, and wants Manny at third. I don't want a four year contract with Hardy.

[weams]

Businesses don't hire (or even retain) people they can't afford and that aren't efficient for their business. We have done too much of that in the past. I don't see us doing that in the future.

I think the organization treats it's players and personnel very well from my vantage point.

I think if anything this organization makes decisions from the heart. That is why I like Duquette being less so.

[SeaBird]

Dan made a big statement about it at Fanfest in January to which Hardy's response was (paraphrasing),"That's news to me." I don't agree with Frobby's point about Roberts as I don't recall any declarative talk of extension but more along the lines of "we're looking into it."

I know at Fanfest Duquette said they offered Chris Davis a long term deal during the off season and Davis denied any knowledge of it.

ESPN.com news services

February 2nd, 2014

Baltimore Orioles executive vice president Dan Duquette said the team offered slugger Chris Davis a long-term deal this offseason -- a claim that seemed to surprise baseball's reigning home run king.

Duquette, speaking Saturday at the team's annual FanFest, said that contract talks with Davis "really hasn't progressed" this winter.

Davis, who led the majors with 53 homers and 138 RBIs last season, responded to Duquette's comments when approached by reporters at the FanFest.

"Really?" Davis said. "Did he say anything else? Dang it. Keep me up to speed on that."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10391118/chris-davis-offered-long-term-contract-baltimore-orioles-vice-president-dan-duquette-says

As for Roberts, Duquette said the team was interested in bringing him back but they basically ignored him during the off season focusing their attention elsewhere.

"Up until last week's winter meetings, there had been no signs that the O's reached out to their former longest-tenured franchise piece, according to Roch Kubatko of MASN Sports. Kubatko stated that since O's Executive Vice-President of Baseball Operations Dan Duquette was focused on adding starting pitching, a closer and a left fielder, he had "basically put second baseman Brian Roberts on the backburner."

Steve Melewski of MASN Sports reported last week that the O's don't have a deal in place with Roberts, but that manager Buck Showalter would like to see him return to the club. In that same piece, Melewski has Duquette quoted as saying:

"Well, we've been working this week mostly on looking for a left-handed hitter and a DH and we've also been trying to add to our pitching staff, so that is something we can get to later on."

"We are still open to (re-signing Roberts). Let's see how out team shapes up and we'll address that at an appropriate time."

The bottom line is the Orioles pretty much ignored Roberts because they never dreamed he'd ever consider going somewhere else.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1892295-brian-roberts-dont-blame-the-player-blame-the-business-game

[Stotle]

See, for me, it is such a fine line. It's all about cost value relationships. And the monies get so crazy here, and especially the time, that I almost think that preserving flexibility is the strong position. And all this is from someone who wants Hardy, and wants Manny at third. I don't want a four year contract with Hardy.

I would not want a four year contract for Hardy either. I do think sometimes you throw an agent a bone to build a relationship. Not saying Hardy is the spot for that at all. But sometimes you do what you have to because relationships are important.

[weams]

Dan can be a little ruthless or shady at times

I never had heard that. What I had heard was that he thought he was smarter than everyone else in the room, and he was impolite to the press. Had you heard otherwise?

[Can_of_corn]

Wasn't he playing earlier in the spring when they tendered him a contract? Or was he never suited up this year?

He was playing in the spring then all of a sudden they pulled him completely off all baseball activities so who knows?

They know his medical history. Was it worth a million dollars to risk losing what he could contribute to the team this year? Would another team have jumped in if they had non-tendered him?

The more I look at it, and the more the story unfurls, the more I am convinced that signing Nolan to that deal wasn't about helping the Orioles win games.

[clapdiddy]

After reading all these posts, I'm guessing the real issue is a combination of:

1. Hardy's agent blew DD out of the water.

2. Management sees Schoop now as a third baseman.

3. Hardy has been nursing some injuries even through Spring Training.

I don't think DD wants to pay "market value" for Hardy. Right now, he could warrant a 4/52 (or more) type of deal, and may be able to get it. I'm guessing DD doesn't want to tie all that money up in a slow-footed, one-dimensional hitter, whose biggest asset (fielding) will no doubt fade over a 4-year deal.

Unfortunately, we're in a situation where we are NOT going to be able to retain many high-priced players. While I love JJ Hardy as a player, I would have no problem with Manny starting at shortstop next season if that's the direction DD feels we need to go.

Also...I do agree with Frobby and Stotle to a certain extent. This has not been handled well. To me, if you have questions about extending a player, you don't make public statements about it.