Last-minute attempt by O's to sign ace holding up trade

[Mackus]

So which is the bigger IF?

That we sign Bedard/BRob and make additional moves(some costly ones) that fill out a balanced team

OR

We trade Bedard/BRob for almost 100% prospects and ALL of them have to produce at or above replacement level players at some point or allow us to trade them for players that do, as well as the hole left by Bedard being filled by a current player or a cheap one down the road

The first one is more unlikely, but I'm ignoring the word ALL in the second part, we don't need all of them to pan out.

[Baroquen131]

Do you see it being more likely they would if our team is comprised mostly of prospects?

If it's a team that has upside, as compared to a team that would look extremely similar to last year's team (minus an All-Star in Tejada, of course), I don't think it would be any worse.

You're implying that the prospects are all going to bomb. I tend to think that at least some of them are going to pan out. Then we have more young bright spots, rather than an oft-injured pitcher coming off a career year, and an all-star 2B about to enter his 30s surrounded by not much else. Sell high, commit to rebuilding, and put a team out on the field that wants to play hard and win - rather than the motley collection of overpaid, underperforming veterans (and borderline ML talent) that is taking up most of our roster space, and that we're mostly not talking about.

[ON BASE %]

Agreed 100% Lamda.

Clearly the M's thought they had a deal back on Sunday. The wheels they set in motion down in Venezuela made that abundantly clear, and some insiders here have confirmed it.

Now here it is Wednesday, and not only is the deal not done, but now they're reading in the papers about how maybe the O's might decide to try and extend their guy instead. Disgraceful.

If this jackassery on the part of the O's is ultimately rewarded with a higher yield, then it will be a travesty of epic proportions. The very notion is disgusting.

As it is, O's fans should be ashamed (yet again) at the manner in which their front office has operated, and be grateful if the original deal can still be salvaged.

I can only imagine the venom and righteous indignation that would be spewing around this place if the O's were the ones being strung along like this.

I'm going to wait until all the facts are out before issuing final judgments. But I don't like this is going so far. I feel bad for the Mariners and their fans. I realize it's business but nobody should be strung along like this.

[Sports Guy]

But Bedard, Roberts and Tex would end up to be the only high paid players. The other veterans get traded as soon as their contracts are paid down to where someone will take them and the rest are young players.

That's not true....It won't take long before the young guys into arbitration and their salaries shoot up.

Besides, if you think it will be those 3 and a bunch of kids making no money, you are dead wrong IMO.

[wildcard]

A little speculation.

Bedard may have used the papers to get around his agent.

MacPhail may have used Peter to respond directly to Bedard instead of Pieper.

Reports say that MacPhail talked to Pieper in the fall and was told they only wanted a one year agreement. Then Jim Street reports that MacPhail and Pieper had talked recently and Pieper said 7/100.

Bedard seeing the trade getting close decides to go around Pieper through the papers. Maybe.

MacPhail having a relationship with Pieper wants to know what Bedard is thinking directly from Bedard. He uses Peter instead on himself to do that.

Just speculation.

[Cokeman]

A little speculation.

Bedard may have used the papers to get around his agent.

MacPhail may have used Peter to respond directly to Bedard instead of Pieper.

Reports say that MacPhail talked to Pieper in the fall and was told they only wanted a one year agreement. Then Jim Street reports that MacPhail and Pieper had talked recently and Pieper said 7/100.

Bedard seeing the trade getting close decides to go around Pieper through the papers. Maybe.

MacPhail having a relationship with Pieper wants to know what Bedard is thinking directly from Bedard. He uses Peter instead on himself to do that.

Just speculation.

So, basically you are saying everyone is acting like grade school kids...I like that girl, but I'm afraid to tell her, so will you tell her for me?

[Fan4Life]

So, basically you are saying everyone is acting like grade school kids...I like that girl, but I'm afraid to tell her, so will you tell her for me?

It's called politics.

[theobird]

This is just very, very sad. I have loved this team since my childhood in the late 60's. It is very hard for me to stomach this whole mess. Sad. Very sad.

[Sports Guy]

I'm aware of what the payroll would be. But its not impossible to build a contender around Bedard and Roberts. Its not likely, but its not impossible.

So this is what we would be reduced to? AGAIN!?

Wait, let me guess...If the young pitching comes through, the Yankees and Red Sox plane crashes, we stay healthy, all of our young position guys develop and we sign Tex and a top of the rotation pitcher, we will be set...Do I have this right?

[allstar1579]

So, basically you are saying everyone is acting like grade school kids...I like that girl, but I'm afraid to tell her, so will you tell her for me?

Do you like this trade?

Check YES [] or NO []

[NCRaven]

So this is what we would be reduced to? AGAIN!?

Wait, let me guess...If the young pitching comes through, the Yankees and Red Sox plane crashes, we stay healthy, all of our young position guys develop and we sign Tex and a top of the rotation pitcher, we will be set...Do I have this right?

To be fair, even if we trade Bedard and Roberts, we'll still have to hope that the young pitching comes through, the Yankees and Red Sox plane crashes, we stay healthy, all of our young position guys develop and we sign Tex and a top of the rotation pitcher. None of the guys we're talking about are sure things and lots of other things, besides these trades, would have to go right for us to develop a competitive team. And, if we re-sign Bedard (which I don't personally want), we would be able to skip the "sign a top of the rotation pitcher" as we'll already have done that.

[Fan4Life]

To be fair, even if we trade Bedard and Roberts, we'll still have to hope that the young pitching comes through, the Yankees and Red Sox plane crashes, we stay healthy, all of our young position guys develop and we sign Tex and a top of the rotation pitcher. None of the guys we're talking about are sure things and lots of other things, besides these trades, would have to go right for us to develop a competitive team. And, if we re-sign Bedard (which I don't personally want), we would be able to skip the "sign a top of the rotation pitcher" as we'll already have done that.

May I copy this and paste at various intervals where the debate continues as to why it is so much better to trade than not to trade, as if that path is a SURE path to success?

[GoOs3]

I live in Florida. If we sign Bedard I will not get MLB Extra Innings. If we trade him, I will. It's that simple.

I have no time to watch a team lose 90+ games with a pitcher we don't need at this time, who could have netted us 4 (maybe 5) players of potential for the future.

I DO have time to watch a team lose 90+ games with new blood that can help shape the future for years to come.

Signing Bedard would be an absolute debacle and really really worthless.

[PoorMike]

To be fair, even if we trade Bedard and Roberts, we'll still have to hope that the young pitching comes through, the Yankees and Red Sox plane crashes, we stay healthy, all of our young position guys develop and we sign Tex and a top of the rotation pitcher. None of the guys we're talking about are sure things and lots of other things, besides these trades, would have to go right for us to develop a competitive team. And, if we re-sign Bedard (which I don't personally want), we would be able to skip the "sign a top of the rotation pitcher" as we'll already have done that.

I would rather take their salaries and invest it scouting, development and in the draft (ie: taking guys above slot).

I don't want to spend 30M/yr on BR and EB in 2010 when we have almost no shot to win then. Let's stock the farm system, lock some young guys up early and plug in retreads or big money FA's down the road when we need them. BR and EB will probably not still be prime time players by the time are are competing again so the money is being flushed down the toilet.

[NCRaven]

SG, could you see a strategy of re-signing Bedard and Roberts, using some of our surplus of young pitchers to trade for a young SS, signing Patterson to a one-year deal, and throwing a boatload of money at Tex next year. We'd have Wieters and Reimold ready in '09 and Moore in position to take over at 3rd until Snyder or Rowell is ready.

Using this strategy, we'd still be in a position to compete in '10 with

1B Tex

2B Roberts

SS Hu/Lillibridge/Nelson (whoever we target for trade)

3B Rowell

C Wieters

LF Scott

CF Reimold

RF Markakis

SP Bedard, Guthrie/Liz, Loewen, Penn/Arrieta, Patton/Olson

The only real difference at this point is that we have Reimold in CF instead of Jones, a probable down grade for the O's, but Bedard leading off the rotation.

It's not obvious that Jones in CF in 2010 is better than Bedard in the rotation.