Schoop vs. Flaherty

[Can_of_corn]

Among qualified hitters, Schoop is by far the worst hitter in the league. That's where the hate comes from. He also has some of the worst AB's anybody has ever seen in the big leagues. He also basically never hits the ball hard (laughably low LD%). And he doesn't walk. His defense also isn't that good as to make up for his pitiful bat, as he's been worth a whopping 0.1 WAR this season. On the other hand, Flaherty has a higher WAR in much less AB's. He has a pretty good walk rate. He hits for more power than Schoop. His OBP is is .40 points higher. His batting average is higher. His slugging percentage is nearly .40 points higher. And he's shown that he's a pretty good defender himself. Pretty much, Schoop is awful. And Flaherty is clearly a better player right now. That's why there's a lot of Schoop hate. He might be a very good hitter in 2 years but he's dreadful right now and didn't show much in the minors to suggest he will be anything above average.

Much higher WAR?

Flaherty rWAR-.1 fWAR- .2

Schoop rWAR- .4 fWAR- .1

You were saying?

[LookitsPuck]

I think the issue w/ Schoop is that he has not developed whatsoever as a hitter. I'd argue he has regressed over the course of the year. Aside from an occasional homer or a lucky bloop hit...he's hitting terribly. His line drive percentage is right around 11%. League average is 20%. So essentially he's not stinging anything. He's still striking out a ton. He hasn't walked in quite some time. He's overly aggressive. He's really a mess at the plate.

His defense is stellar. Everything else is poor.

[charles_goos]

Much higher WAR?

Flaherty rWAR-.1 fWAR- .2

Schoop rWAR- .4 fWAR- .1

You were saying?

I agree with you, leave the kid alone, he will get it all together when we least expect it, but Flaherty makes me wanna stop watching baseball, what an uninspiring player, he looks lost at the plate and without desire to improve, plus he had his chances.

Schoop will be good, you can tell by watching him.

[LookitsPuck]

Flaherty went 0-15 to start the season. Since then he is .258 .338 .403 .741 Schoop from that same date is .611 OPS. But he continues to get twice as many PA. Go figure. Yes he is 22 and Flash is 27 and he fgures to be the better long term 2B. But we are trying to win now and Flash at least in a platoon with Schoop would be an upgrade. I like the idea of sending Schoop down at least long enough to deal with service time issue and bringing up Dejesus to platoon with Flash.

I don't even think Schoop should platoon from an offensive standpoint.

Vs. RHP: .226/.262/.360 - .622 OPS

Vs. LHP: .210/.256/.247 - .503 OPS

All 6 of Schoop's homers were against righties. He has only 3 XBH against lefties, whereas he has 13 against righties.

As for Flaherty?

Vs. RHP: .226/.310/.322 - .632 OPS

Vs. LHP: .250/.280/.542 - .822 OPS (only 25 plate appearances, though).

I'm on the same page as you...I think they need to bring up a Dejesus type to platoon w/ Flaherty.

[Jonesy10]

Much higher WAR?

Flaherty rWAR-.1 fWAR- .2

Schoop rWAR- .4 fWAR- .1

You were saying?

"Flaherty has a higher WAR in much less AB's"

Notice where the much is located in the sentence...

[BohKnowsBmore]

Among qualified hitters, Schoop is by far the worst hitter in the league. That's where the hate comes from. He also has some of the worst AB's anybody has ever seen in the big leagues. He also basically never hits the ball hard (laughably low LD%). And he doesn't walk. His defense also isn't that good as to make up for his pitiful bat, as he's been worth a whopping 0.1 WAR this season. On the other hand, Flaherty has a higher WAR in much less AB's. He has a pretty good walk rate. He hits for more power than Schoop. His OBP is is .40 points higher. His batting average is higher. His slugging percentage is nearly .40 points higher. And he's shown that he's a pretty good defender himself. Pretty much, Schoop is awful. And Flaherty is clearly a better player right now. That's why there's a lot of Schoop hate. He might be a very good hitter in 2 years but he's dreadful right now and didn't show much in the minors to suggest he will be anything above average.

Considering he's 4th lowest in OPS among qualified hitters, he's not "by far the worst." Further, that's an interesting qualification (among qualified hitters) as it basically says, "among guys who have demonstrated enough to be getting regular playing time, he's the lowest of that group."

[Jonesy10]

I think the issue w/ Schoop is that he has not developed whatsoever as a hitter. I'd argue he has regressed over the course of the year. Aside from an concessional homer or a lucky bloop hit...he's hitting terribly. His line drive percentage is right around 11%. League average is 20%. So essentially he's not stinging anything. He's still striking out a ton. He hasn't walked in quite some time. He's overly aggressive. He's really a mess at the plate.

His defense is stellar. Everything else is poor.

This. He's not showing any growth whatsoever and he didn't do much hitting wise at AA or AAA. Wait until he's at least a good hitter in the minors to being him up here.

[LookitsPuck]

I agree with you, leave the kid alone, he will get it all together when we least expect it, but Flaherty makes me wanna stop watching baseball, what an uninspiring player, he looks lost at the plate and without desire to improve, plus he had his chances.

Schoop will be good, you can tell by watching him.

What makes you think Schoop will be good *this year*? The Orioles rushed him. He was bad at AAA (.256/.301/.396 - .697 OPS), he was bad at AA (.245/.324/.386 - .710 OPS).

His last 28 days here: .203/.224/.257 - .480 OPS. 2 XBH (1 double, 1 homer). 18 strikeouts. NO WALKS.

[Can_of_corn]

"Flaherty has a higher WAR in much less AB's"

Notice where the much is located in the sentence...

How about we do the math.

.1 + .2 /2 = .15

.4 + .1 /2 = .25

.25 > .15.

Which one has the higher WAR?

[Can_of_corn]

What makes you think Schoop will be good *this year*? The Orioles rushed him. He was bad at AAA (.256/.301/.396 - .697 OPS), he was bad at AA (.245/.324/.386 - .710 OPS).

His last 28 days here: .203/.224/.257 - .480 OPS. 2 XBH (1 double, 1 homer). 18 strikeouts. NO WALKS.

He had a broken back last year.

That's going to impact the numbers.

I see no reason to think time at Norfolk will help.

AAA is holding the 26-35 men on the MLB roster, it isn't for developing prospects.

[Jonesy10]

Considering he's 4th lowest in OPS among qualified hitters, he's not "by far the worst." Further, that's an interesting qualification (among qualified hitters) as it basically says, "among guys who have demonstrated enough to be getting regular playing time, he's the lowest of that group."

Lowest in the AL in OPS and wRC+. And not really all that close. And why doesn't qualified hitters make sense? That's pretty much guys that are starters (who also haven't missed significant time to injury). Shouldn't he be compared to other starters since that is what he is right now? Compared to them he clearly doesn't belong in the majors right now as a starter.

[Jonesy10]

How about we do the math.

.1 + .2 /2 = .15

.4 + .1 /2 = .25

.25 > .15.

Which one has the higher WAR?

According to Fangraphs Flaherty has a 0.2 WAR and Schoop has a 0.1 WAR. If you give them each 600 AB's with their current WAR rate, Flaherty is worth between 0.5 and 0.6 more wins than Schoop.

Not even using WAR, Flaherty has been a much better player than Schoop over the past 2 months or so and clearly should be getting more playing time than Jon.

[Can_of_corn]

According to Fangraphs Flaherty has a 0.2 WAR and Schoop has a 0.1 WAR. If you give them each 600 AB's with their current WAR rate, Flaherty is worth between 0.5 and 0.6 more wins than Schoop.

Not even using WAR, Flaherty has been a much better player than Schoop over the past 2 months or so and clearly should be getting more playing time than Jon.

So you just chose to ignore rWAR? Since, you know, it doesn't support your position and all.

Also since camp Flaherty loves to cherry pick, if you remove Schoop's defense at third how much of a bump does he get? My guess is it would be considerable.

[El Gordo]

I agree with you, leave the kid alone, he will get it all together when we least expect it, but Flaherty makes me wanna stop watching baseball, what an uninspiring player, he looks lost at the plate and without desire to improve, plus he had his chances.

Schoop will be good, you can tell by watching him.

Haven't watched much since April 6th huh? Falaherty is hitting .412 .524 .824 1.347 the last two weeks, .802 OPS the last 28 days . I wish Schoop looked that lost. :rolleyestf:

[Jonesy10]

So you just chose to ignore rWAR? Since, you know, it doesn't support your position and all.

Also since camp Flaherty loves to cherry pick, if you remove Schoop's defense at third how much of a bump does he get? My guess is it would be considerable.

Honestly I don't know what rWAR is.

Flaherty's defense at 3rd has actually been much worse than Schoop's, in 5 more innings, surprisingly.

As for small sample size, Flaherty has a .725 OPS in his last 230 PA's. I think that's definitely worth giving him a shot. I don't think you can deal with both Joseph and Schoop being awful offensively, and when it comes to defense Joseph has been much better than Schoop according to the metrics.

I am not saying Flaherty is going to be fantastic, but I think he deserves to be a given a shot to start, and unless he continues hitting well then you go trade for a 2B. I don't have a personal vendetta against Schoop. I just think the guy that is gonna give the team the best chance to win should start, and that's Flash right now.