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Schoop vs. Flaherty


Scrat1

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At this point, what is the argument for keeping Schoop in Baltimore?

Here are some facts:

1. Schoop's bat has not developed in Baltimore

2. If we send him down, we'll get him for an extra year of service time.

3. Flaherty is producing at least as much as Schoop

Considering these three facts, it seems totally illogical to keep Schoop here. If you're looking at production for this season, then Flaherty is likely the better option or at least equal. If you're looking for the future, then you want the extra service time. Either way, the team is better off with Schoop in the minors for 2014.

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At this point, what is the argument for keeping Schoop in Baltimore?

Here are some facts:

1. Schoop's bat has not developed in Baltimore

2. If we send him down, we'll get him for an extra year of service time.

3. Flaherty is producing at least as much as Schoop

Considering these three facts, it seems totally illogical to keep Schoop here. If you're looking at production for this season, then Flaherty is likely the better option or at least equal. If you're looking for the future, then you want the extra service time. Either way, the team is better off with Schoop in the minors for 2014.

At least until September.

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At this point, what is the argument for keeping Schoop in Baltimore?

Here are some facts:

1. Schoop's bat has not developed in Baltimore

2. If we send him down, we'll get him for an extra year of service time.

3. Flaherty is producing at least as much as Schoop

Considering these three facts, it seems totally illogical to keep Schoop here. If you're looking at production for this season, then Flaherty is likely the better option or at least equal. If you're looking for the future, then you want the extra service time. Either way, the team is better off with Schoop in the minors for 2014.

You bring up an interesting point. We have this revolving door with Gausman but we're treating Schoop like he's a rule 5 guy. I realize you're talking about a position player vs pitcher, but still.

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It's not as if Schoop dominated on the farm either. It's one thing when you have nothing left to learn, so it's just a matter of getting use to major league pitching. He was still really raw, and played really raw, in the minors. He shouldn't be on the big league squad until September.

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Do you remember the "three stooges" of the O's 1983 World Series Championship team? Dempsey, Dauer and Cruz. None of them hit much but all three played good to great defense. Well Schoop and O's catchers may fit into that category.

Have you seen any indication at all from Buck that he is going to send Schoop down?

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Do you remember the "three stooges" of the O's 1983 World Series Championship team? Dempsey, Dauer and Cruz. None of them hit much but all three played good to great defense. Well Schoop and O's catchers may fit into that category.

Have you seen any indication at all from Buck that he is going to send Schoop down?

DD makes roster decisions, Buck manages the roster he is given.

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DD makes roster decisions, Buck manages the roster he is given.

OK, have you seen any indication from Dan Duquette or Buck that Schoop will be sent down?

(Oh and by the way, if you think Buck doesn't have a lot to say about roster decisions, you are missing a lot of what is happening IMO.)

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What do you have against the other dozen or so Flaherty/Schoop threads?

There is zero evidence that going to the minors will improve Schoop's game more then staying in the majors. If Schoop is sent down and Flaherty is given, yet another, chance to start then someone who is less proficient defensively then either one of them is going to have to be called up. Then if Hardy or Machado miss time you will have to move the starting 2b out of position and play your backup who can only play second.

Obviously the O's don't see service time as an issue for Schoop. My guess is they have a better read on the matter then we do.

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I would not mind seeing Schoop go down, but we would still need someone to start at 2B vs LHP at a minimum. Unfortunately Weeks and Lombardozzi appear to not play good enough defense for Buck and DD. With Flaherty also needed as backup 3B and SS, we still have an opening at 2B and Schoop is the best for the job. If we had Zobrist or Rickie Weeks, on the other hand...

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I don't get the Schoop hate. He's a solid defender with an amazing arm.He hits for power and he runs reasonably well.Yes, his average leaves something to be desired , but he's learning on the job and he will get better. He has had far fewer opportunities LONG TERM than Flaherty who can't hit a breaking pitch to save his life.Besides, put the two second baseman together and you get 10 HR and 36 RBI's before the break.Thats not bad. Now, catcher? THATS a different story offensively.

I don't hate him. I love him. I want him to go down to Norfolk for a month.

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This is ridiculous talk. We're comparing a 28 year old with, what, 3 years already in the majors to a 22 year old rookie. Schoop is already comparable to Flaherty offensively and defensively with a far higher ceiling. There's no logical argument that Schoop should be sent down in favor of Flaherty. Now if they bring somebody else in for 2nd base that might be a different story.

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I don't get the Schoop love. He's done nothing above Frederick.

That said, he's an interesting, "toolsy" prospect whom I certainly haven't given up on. He needs to play and (hopefully) gain confidence in Norfolk. Flash and Lombardozzi/Weeks, et al. are capable of replacing his production, absent an aquisition.

I don't get the Schoop hate. He's a solid defender with an amazing arm.He hits for power and he runs reasonably well.Yes, his average leaves something to be desired , but he's learning on the job and he will get better. He has had far fewer opportunities LONG TERM than Flaherty who can't hit a breaking pitch to save his life.Besides, put the two second baseman together and you get 10 HR and 36 RBI's before the break.Thats not bad. Now, catcher? THATS a different story offensively.
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Flaherty went 0-15 to start the season. Since then he is .258 .338 .403 .741 Schoop from that same date is .611 OPS. But he continues to get twice as many PA. Go figure. Yes he is 22 and Flash is 27 and he fgures to be the better long term 2B. But we are trying to win now and Flash at least in a platoon with Schoop would be an upgrade. I like the idea of sending Schoop down at least long enough to deal with service time issue and bringing up Dejesus to platoon with Flash.

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I don't get the Schoop hate. He's a solid defender with an amazing arm.He hits for power and he runs reasonably well.Yes, his average leaves something to be desired , but he's learning on the job and he will get better. He has had far fewer opportunities LONG TERM than Flaherty who can't hit a breaking pitch to save his life.Besides, put the two second baseman together and you get 10 HR and 36 RBI's before the break.Thats not bad. Now, catcher? THATS a different story offensively.

Among qualified hitters, Schoop is by far the worst hitter in the league. That's where the hate comes from. He also has some of the worst AB's anybody has ever seen in the big leagues. He also basically never hits the ball hard (laughably low LD%). And he doesn't walk. His defense also isn't that good as to make up for his pitiful bat, as he's been worth a whopping 0.1 WAR this season. On the other hand, Flaherty has a higher WAR in much less AB's. He has a pretty good walk rate. He hits for more power than Schoop. His OBP is is .40 points higher. His batting average is higher. His slugging percentage is nearly .40 points higher. And he's shown that he's a pretty good defender himself. Pretty much, Schoop is awful. And Flaherty is clearly a better player right now. That's why there's a lot of Schoop hate. He might be a very good hitter in 2 years but he's dreadful right now and didn't show much in the minors to suggest he will be anything above average.

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