Schoop vs. Flaherty

[brianod]

What do you make of the fact hat since April 6 Flaherty is hitting .741 OPS. Smoke and mirrors?

For the year, Schoop is at 221, 260, 326. Flaherty is at 230, 305, 360. A .260 obp is absolutely abysmal. Add to that, Flaherty is hot lately and Schoop is terrible. I think Schoop may eventually be a great player. But, right now, Flaherty is better.

[Jonesy10]

What do you make of the fact hat since April 6 Flaherty is hitting .741 OPS. Smoke and mirrors?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both of you saying the same thing?

[El Gordo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both of you saying the same thing?

I have no idea what he is trying to say, but I am saying that Flaherty has been hitting a lot better than Schoop the past 2 months and he plays as good a defensive 2B.

[Malike]

I don't get the Schoop hate. He's a solid defender with an amazing arm.He hits for power and he runs reasonably well.Yes, his average leaves something to be desired , but he's learning on the job and he will get better. He has had far fewer opportunities LONG TERM than Flaherty who can't hit a breaking pitch to save his life.Besides, put the two second baseman together and you get 10 HR and 36 RBI's before the break.Thats not bad. Now, catcher? THATS a different story offensively.

I don't think anyone hates him, Roy. He is a solid defender with a great arm, but he's slugging .335, he's not hitting for power. His OPS is sub .600, we didn't want to carry Cesar Izturis with a sub .600 OPS and plus defense. He may hit someday, but for a team who might have a real shot to get to the post season, its very hard to hide his bat in the lineup. He's not hitting for average, he's not getting on base, and he's not hitting for power, period.

[LookitsPuck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't both of you saying the same thing?

Pretty sure that brianod fellow was advocating for Flaherty to start as he's a better hitter. He's contending that defensive statistics are unreliable...and in as much Schoop's only value to the team is his defense...so basically...go w/ the known commodity (Flaherty) versus the unknown (Schoop) so Schoop can work on his hitting.

[LookitsPuck]

I don't think anyone hates him, Roy. He is a solid defender with a great arm, but he's slugging .335, he's not hitting for power. His OPS is sub .600, we didn't want to carry Cesar Izturis with a sub .600 OPS and plus defense. He may hit someday, but for a team who might have a real shot to get to the post season, its very hard to hide his bat in the lineup. He's not hitting for average, he's not getting on base, and he's not hitting for power, period.

Not to mention he's ridiculously aggressive at the plate...so he's not even working the count.

[DrungoHazewood]

Do you remember the "three stooges" of the O's 1983 World Series Championship team? Dempsey, Dauer and Cruz. None of them hit much but all three played good to great defense. Well Schoop and O's catchers may fit into that category.

Have you seen any indication at all from Buck that he is going to send Schoop down?

I know it's almost blasphemous to give an objective assessment of Championship Orioles, but the '83 team won despite Dauer and Cruz. They were terrible, their perceived defensive strengths didn't make up for their anemic bats. The lesson to take from them is that even World Champions often have black holes in the lineup, but can overcome them with other significant strengths.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't think anyone hates him, Roy. He is a solid defender with a great arm, but he's slugging .335, he's not hitting for power. His OPS is sub .600, we didn't want to carry Cesar Izturis with a sub .600 OPS and plus defense. He may hit someday, but for a team who might have a real shot to get to the post season, its very hard to hide his bat in the lineup. He's not hitting for average, he's not getting on base, and he's not hitting for power, period.

If there is any obvious spot on the Orioles roster to upgrade it has to be second base. The O's are 25th in the majors in offensive production out of the position, and that's only surprising because it's not 30th (the Padres, bless their hearts, have a sub-.500 OPS out of their second basemen!).

[Redskins Rick]

If there is any obvious spot on the Orioles roster to upgrade it has to be second base. The O's are 25th in the majors in offensive production out of the position, and that's only surprising because it's not 30th (the Padres, bless their hearts, have a sub-.500 OPS out of their second basemen!).

But, the overall team is in first by 3 games, and I am concerned with giving up future prospect for this.

Obvious upgrade point right now, but you also have to look ahead and you have 3 open areas that need to address, SS, LF and RF.

[Reboulet'sStache]

Using that, saying that is just wrong. Defensive metrics are, ummm, unreliable to begin with and even worse for a catcher. To use 37 games and say he's been the best defensive catcher is just moronic.

Then don't follow them. That's fine. The point is, whether you like them or not, they provide an objective reason why someone would want Joseph on the team but not Schoop.

[DrungoHazewood]

But, the overall team is in first by 3 games, and I am concerned with giving up future prospect for this.

Obvious upgrade point right now, but you also have to look ahead and you have 3 open areas that need to address, SS, LF and RF.

I wouldn't give up anything substantial unless it somehow was in exchange for a longer-term answer. But I think it's at least plausible that the Orioles could upgrade the position over the next few months without giving up a ton.

[Malike]

If there is any obvious spot on the Orioles roster to upgrade it has to be second base. The O's are 25th in the majors in offensive production out of the position, and that's only surprising because it's not 30th (the Padres, bless their hearts, have a sub-.500 OPS out of their second basemen!).

That is surprising, I figured we were dead last, and ouch, sub .500 for the Padres, I feel bad for the poor 2B, he's got to be frustrated beyond belief.

[Redskins Rick]

I wouldn't give up anything substantial unless it somehow was in exchange for a longer-term answer. But I think it's at least plausible that the Orioles could upgrade the position over the next few months without giving up a ton.

I agree

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

The Schoop detractors keep pointing out that he didn't hit well in the minors, but he's always been pretty highly regarded as a prospect anyway. I seem to remember the same with Manny. Never really tore it up in the minors, but his ceiling was never questioned and people projected him to produce in the majors after some time. I think the situations have some parallels, although Manny's defense at 3rd was a revelation and far better than what we had had in a while, where as Flaherty where he is now may be a better short term solution to Schoop.

[DrungoHazewood]

The Schoop detractors keep pointing out that he didn't hit well in the minors, but he's always been pretty highly regarded as a prospect anyway. I seem to remember the same with Manny. Never really tore it up in the minors, but his ceiling was never questioned and people projected him to produce in the majors after some time. I think the situations have some parallels, although Manny's defense at 3rd was a revelation and far better than what we had had in a while, where as Flaherty where he is now may be a better short term solution to Schoop.

I wouldn't worry much about Schoop's minor league hitting lines because he's always been aggressively promoted and has been young for his leagues. That's certainly been the case in his MLB career, too.