Gotta get help at the black hole at 2nd base

[mark_beckens]

And yet managers still follow the save rule. :cussing:

It's up there also. LOL :beerchug1:

All 27 outs are as important as the others. The final 3 can be the hardest to get but they are no more important then the first 3.

[LookitsPuck]

Knowledgeable fans know average and SP wins are two of the most over rated stats in baseball!

Are you trying to imply I'm not knowledgeable?

Saves and wins are the most overrated stats in baseball.

Batting average has its place. It's not as overrated as you make it out to be. And when you take it together with OBP (poor at AA, AAA, MLB), SLG (poor at AA, AAA, and MLB)...tell me how you can even construct a meaningful argument of how he can be still up here?

His line drive percentage is one of the worst...if not the worst in all of MLB. ML average is ~20%. He's falling to near 10%.

[LookitsPuck]

My comment was based on yours about his average.

.700 OPS is not poor, especially for a 21 year old playing in AAA and a 20 year old in AA

We'll agree to disagree. It's not good. Whether you want to argue semantics...he has shown zero ability to give anyone some sort of confidence in his hitting ability from AA on up.

And lookie here tonight...6 pitches, 3 outs. 1 on 3 straight pitches.

[mark_beckens]

Are you trying to imply I'm not knowledgeable?

Saves and wins are the most overrated stats in baseball.

Batting average has its place. It's not as overrated as you make it out to be. And when you take it together with OBP (poor at AA, AAA, MLB), SLG (poor at AA, AAA, and MLB)...tell me how you can even construct a meaningful argument of how he can be still up here?

His line drive percentage is one of the worst...if not the worst in all of MLB. ML average is ~20%. He's falling to near 10%.

That would depend on how much you value it.

I said average, just average is over rated. When used properly with other stats it is not over rated.

I posted this earlier, not sure if you read it, comprehended it or remembered it. The MLB league average for OPS is .705. So explain to me how a 21 year old who is 6 years younger then the league age average for AAA who puts up a .697 is POOR?

[Jonesy10]

3 more hideous at bats tonight from Schoop. At .569 OPS now. How much longer can it continue?

[Can_of_corn]

3 more hideous at bats tonight from Schoop. At .569 OPS now. How much longer can it continue?

Hopefully late October.

[Jonesy10]

Hopefully late October.

If we can make it to late October with Schoop as our starter I'll take it. But I think we could improve our chances by acquiring someone.

[LookitsPuck]

That would depend on how much you value it.

I said average, just average is over rated. When used properly with other stats it is not over rated.

I posted this earlier, not sure if you read it, comprehended it or remembered it. The MLB league average for OPS is .705. So explain to me how a 21 year old who is 6 years younger then the league age average for AAA who puts up a .697 is POOR?

This is quite simple.

MLB OPS != AAA OPS

[brianod]

I agree with the post. Schoop is a fine prospect but if we are going to accept an automatic out at catcher because of defense and handling pitchers, we can't accept one at 2b. Having 2 automatic outs is killing or offense.

[Can_of_corn]

If we can make it to late October with Schoop as our starter I'll take it. But I think we could improve our chances by acquiring someone.

Look around.

There isn't a surplus of good second basemen in the league.

[mark_beckens]

This is quite simple.

MLB OPS != AAA OPS

You're making my head hurt, I'm done trying to educate you.

[Jonesy10]

Look around.

There isn't a surplus of good second basemen in the league.

There's also not many as bad as Schoop. If we can upgrade, good. If we can't, fine. Just need to hope Schoop improves and Flaherty gets hot.

[LookitsPuck]

You're making my head hurt, I'm done trying to educate you.

You're not educating anything. You're writing off AVG, OBP, and SLG. And then you focus on just AVG. Then you bash people. Your argument is inane. No substance.

Listen, you admit Schoop was rushed. And why was he rushed?

Because he wasn't lighting up AA. Or AAA.

And why wasn't he lighting up AA or AAA?

Poor AVG.

Poor OBP.

Poor SLG.

Poor OPS.

If you're a prospect, you need to show better than a 700 OPS or less to deserve to be called up. And when that < 700 OPS is accompanied by a sub < 250 AVG and a near 300 OBP...that is BAD. POOR.

[mark_beckens]

You're not educating anything. You're writing off AVG, OBP, and SLG. And then you focus on just AVG. Then you bash people. Your argument is inane. No substance.

Listen, you admit Schoop was rushed. And why was he rushed?

Because he wasn't lighting up AA. Or AAA.

And why wasn't he lighting up AA or AAA?

Poor AVG.

Poor OBP.

Poor SLG.

Poor OPS.

If you're a prospect, you need to show better than a 700 OPS or less to deserve to be called up. And when that < 700 OPS is accompanied by a sub < 250 AVG and a near 300 OBP...that is BAD. POOR.

Batting average is one of the most over-rated stats in baseball. The difference between hitting .250 and .300 over 500 ab's is 25 hits. The MLB season is 26 weeks, so that's 1 hit per week.

My initial comment. I stand by it and I won't back down from it. I have not once said anything negative about OBP or SLG. Too many fans and players fall in love with batting average. It is not the most important offensive stat. It is over rated as a single stat!

[LookitsPuck]

If you won't back down from it, you never had an argument. As my original post talked about all 3 stats.

And here's the problem w/ Schoop if you take away AVG...his OBP is awful. And his SLG? Awful as well.

It'd be one thing if he was Chris Davis with the bat this year. That is...a poor AVG...but an OBP > .300. But he's not that. And he doesn't have the power either. Aside from a rare homer on mistakes...he doesn't hit many XBH. How do you explain his near MLB worst line drive percentage?

Shoot, if you just used OBP...Jones is nothing special. What does he excel at? AVG and SLG.