Maese on the O's Rep

[clarence]

I have said this before. Don't play poker with Andy. Why do I say that. Let me paint a scenario for you. Andy hates the media and Bill Bavasi loves it. Months back Bill comes to Andy and says

I hear you want to get rid of Bedard. Andy says only for the right deal. He offers Andy 1 B level and 2 C level prospects. Andy says nope. Gotta do a lot better. Bills says lemme think about it. He goes back to Seattle and promptly tells the press they are IN THE RUNNING FOR BEDARD!!!!

Now how long does it actually take for people to realize that Andy is NOT BLUFFING!!! He will go into opening day with Erik pitching.

Now by this time Bavasi has put his job on the line. Common knowledge that the M's are not likely to WIN IT with the way thier pitching staff stands. They NEED a front of the line pitcher to put them over the top (Maybe).

You are Andy. Knowing this what would you do. Well if it is me, and I got the Ace of Trump card in my hand, I sweat you for everything I can. You all would hate me. And god help him if another team really did put thier hat in the ring. I get a bidding war going and I drag this out right into spring training. Now if you can tell me where to get another pitcher of Erik's quality then this idea does not hold water. But if I am right and Erik is it, then I am gonna milk every drop of sweat and blood I can get out of you. Not to mention every bit of talent possible. I agree screw the media. If me keeping my mouth shut makes Bavasi go as crazy as some people are getting. Then I am playing the hand right.

Said it before, I'll say it again, DON'T PLAY POKER WITH ANDY!!!

My favorite post of the offseason.

[square634]

Do we? Can you provide those links for me? I haven't seen a single quote from a league or team source that singles out Angelos or says the Orioles have taken too long. I saw one anonymous quote from a NL GM that said it sure seemed to be taking too long, but he didn't assign any blame or offer any reason for it. I guess I missed it. Can you help me out?

I believe it was Olney's blog or maybe Rosenthal who said he talked to officials who agreed it was vintage Angelos. I could be mistaken, but I don't have time to look for it now because I have to do phone interviews for the women's basketball team any minute now. And yes, the quote you are talking about was one I was referring too. IMO, that did imply that the O's have taken too long.

Edit: here's one I quickly found on baltimoresun.com

"This is vintage Angelos," said one baseball executive who requested anonymity. "It is probably the first time that Andy has had to deal with something like this. I don't want to say it is a bad philosophy, but [Angelos] is one of those guys who doesn't like to make a deal unless he absolutely knows it is the right one. That's a fine way to practice in the real world, but that doesn't work in our world. We don't play in the real world."

[SteveA]

I agree winning will utimately give us our respect back, but wouldn't it be nice if we could gain a little bit back by making a sucessful trade for Bedard without having it become a fiasco? It shouldn't have been this hard to trade Bedard, yet it turned into a production.

I'm just saying it would be nice if we helped ourselves earn credibilty and respect instead of shooting ourselves in the foot all the time.

Why is it a "fiasco"? Because significant time has elapsed since the first rumor of the trade hit the internet, and its completion. That is THE ONLY REASON. Why did we hear about it? Because Adam Jones talked to a reporter and because news travels faster on the internet than it ever has before. Why was it delayed? I don't know. In the end, does all that crap matter? Of course not. The trade matters.

Is the Red Sox organization a joke because they traded for Alex Rodriguez and it fell through and he wound up with the Yankees? Nope. Because the Red Sox continue to win. How many people even remember that A-Rod/Boston fiasco? I'll bet it has slipped the mind of most baseball fans. And he is the best player in baseball. What happened this week to delay a trade will be so tiny, pathetically insignificant compared to whether or not we can rebuild the team into a winner. Just totally irrelevant. You (like many of us) has been following this so closely and getting so emotionally involved in the mini soap opera that you are blowing it way, way out of proportion. And I don't think baseball executives are going to be reluctant to deal with the Orioles....the major thing they will take from this is that MacPhail must be in charge because he convinced Angelos to part with an ace starter to get a bunch of kids to rebuild with.

[boogidownoriole]

I have said this before. Don't play poker with Andy. Why do I say that. Let me paint a scenario for you. Andy hates the media and Bill Bavasi loves it. Months back Bill comes to Andy and says

I hear you want to get rid of Bedard. Andy says only for the right deal. He offers Andy 1 B level and 2 C level prospects. Andy says nope. Gotta do a lot better. Bills says lemme think about it. He goes back to Seattle and promptly tells the press they are IN THE RUNNING FOR BEDARD!!!!

Now how long does it actually take for people to realize that Andy is NOT BLUFFING!!! He will go into opening day with Erik pitching.

Now by this time Bavasi has put his job on the line. Common knowledge that the M's are not likely to WIN IT with the way thier pitching staff stands. They NEED a front of the line pitcher to put them over the top (Maybe).

You are Andy. Knowing this what would you do. Well if it is me, and I got the Ace of Trump card in my hand, I sweat you for everything I can. You all would hate me. And god help him if another team really did put thier hat in the ring. I get a bidding war going and I drag this out right into spring training. Now if you can tell me where to get another pitcher of Erik's quality then this idea does not hold water. But if I am right and Erik is it, then I am gonna milk every drop of sweat and blood I can get out of you. Not to mention every bit of talent possible. I agree screw the media. If me keeping my mouth shut makes Bavasi go as crazy as some people are getting. Then I am playing the hand right.

Said it before, I'll say it again, DON'T PLAY POKER WITH ANDY!!!

I wanna know who he is picking tomorrow night. Great post by the way.

[square634]

What hurts BALs reputation is lazy sports writing and crappy journalists who would rather pump out 1000 words in an hour on the convenient story than take three hours and actually try to dig into the issue....

I guarantee you he or others at the Sun tried to contact MacPhail and/or Angelos. And I guarantee they refused to talk. So how exactly could he dig into the issue?

[morris]

This guy keeps getting better and better. He should take Schmuck's job...

Any goodwill MacPhail has built up has been erased by this debacle. Nobody is going to want to deal with the Orioles after this unless we have something they really really want or unless they are the Chicago Cubs...

What did Mcphail do to you? You have spent so much time bashing him, it is getting really old. How about sitting back at the end of the day and evaluating him on the trades that he makes.

[square634]

Neither Olney's blog nor Rosenthal's stuff had anything on record. What they had was innuendo and supposition, but nobody on record. That quote from the NL guy never even mentioned the Orioles or any official by name. Interesting that you think he was singling out the Orioles yet he never mentioned the team or its officials. Maybe you "assumed" it was the Orioles he was referring to? You know what assuming does.

There hasn't been a shred of evidence from anywhere that the Mariners are the ones holding up this deal. Combine that with Angelos' checkered past and what do you expect other teams to conclude? I'm not saying other teams aren't going to deal with us or anything, I'm just saying it can't help the Orioles FO's reputation.

[square634]

I'm curious why you didn't copy the sentence right before the two you quoted. You know this one:

The whole point of this article was that AM had been asked if PA was the issue here and he bluntly said "NO".

Yes, I realize that, but Maese's point, which I agree with, is that just the fact that this is even being discussed does not help (and could possibly hurt) our credibility.

So, therefore he shouldn't write the article. If you don't have solid information, why feed the rumor mill? I realize this is a commentary and he is entitled to his opinion, but I would be really embarrassed to type a column concluding we're still inept while admitting I have zero idea what is actually going on in this situation. This is classic pandering.

I don't think he was saying the O's are inept. I interpreted his article to mean that this whole debacle is not a good way to convince other teams that everything has changed under MacPhail and we are now easier to deal with.

[JTrea81]

What did Mcphail do to you? You have spent so much time bashing him, it is getting really old. How about sitting back at the end of the day and evaluating him on the trades that he makes.

I'm just commenting on his poor PR skills in this scenario, instead of saying no comment he flat out kept denying things, which just made things worse. The Orioles' reputation is in the toilet. It would just be nice if we could take the opportunity to use the national attention to reflect on the Orioles positively instead of showing that we are the same old Angelos run franchise that is slow and indecisive.

If PR wasn't so important to a franchise, then why even have a Communications section?

[JTrea81]

He is pandering is what he is doing. He has been reading this board and other boards. He sees all the 18-24 year olds on here freaking out over ever little word and he realizes that he can write an article that will win him support w/o having to actually say anything of any credence. He is the worst type of today's journalist. He is more interested in being popular than in contributing anything of value. He has nothing to write at this point. He should keep his pen, computer, and mouth shut on the subject re: conclusions on this subject.

Well I hate to tell you but the average Orioles fan would probably agree with his conclusions and they are the ones that buy the tickets. Poor PR does not help the Orioles in any way, and MacPhail could have avoided all this quite easily, but he made it worse.

I'm sure he'll have plenty of chances to redeem himself though...

[square634]

It is too early to say what has happened here. I expect people to withhold conclusions until they have actual information on what happened. Most rational human beings with a decent IQ don't just jump to conclusions. That is what I would hope other teams to conclude.

Where are they going to get the information about what happened, even if the deal does eventually go through? Certainly not from MacPhail.

Maese's job as a columnist is to write opinions, and in his opinion this whole Bedard saga could hurt the credibility of the O's FO. Whether you agree with his opinion or not, what is wrong with his writing that? I don't see how this is any different from any of Olney's or Rosenthal's speculative blogs or columns. I can see why someone would disagree with his conclusion, but I don't see why people are bashing his journalistic integrity.

[El Gordo]

The sad part is this is supposed to be MacPhail's moment of glory, but so many things went wrong it is now a PR nightmare. This was supposed to be his Frank Robinson trade, the trade that established his legacy in Baltimore just like his father's, but now it looks like something the Orioles need to be more ashamed of. It's great they made the deal, but they handled it terribly.

MacPhail still wants his moment in the sun however, which is why he is going to go through with a press conference. Sadly, instead of reveling in the media spotlight for getting this done and establishing a new era just like his father did with the Robinson trade, he will have to answer to why it all went so wrong...

Good grief, get over it with the meladrama already, this baseball, not Entertainment Tonight or Page six. Nothing went so wrong. We made a good, who knows maybe, a great trade. The only snag was a one week delay cuased by Jones' "leak" and the ensuing legal snag. If we end up getting better than what was initially reported no one including you will mention this again, Next week is going to be all about the BRob trade regardless.

[Ruzious]

I'm concerned because I'm sick of the average baseball fan thinking our franchise is a joke, and this way the Orioles handled this deal just reinforces that fact. If we want to be respected, the media is going to play a role in that, and right now it's not helping us that's for sure. Sure we got the deal done, but not without it dragging out for three months and Angelos rumors coming into play and anytime that happens, we stay true to our reputation of being hard to deal with and having a meddling owner.

It sounds like you have no conception of how the average fan thinks. The average fan isn't someone who posts on their team's baseball board 10 times a day. They didn't follow this drama with the extreme intensity that most of us have. They see that it's early February - nearly 2 months before the season starts - and the O's are nearly through with their 2nd huge trade of the offseason. Most probably figure the O's won both of the trades. They probably think - good for the O's - they have a plan - and they're executing it pretty well, so far. About damn time, too. Hiring AM finally got them off their buttockses.

[square634]

He is pandering is what he is doing. He has been reading this board and other boards. He sees all the 18-24 year olds on here freaking out over ever little word and he realizes that he can write an article that will win him support w/o having to actually say anything of any credence. He is the worst type of today's journalist. He is more interested in being popular than in contributing anything of value. He has nothing to write at this point. He should keep his pen, computer, and mouth shut on the subject re: conclusions on this subject.

First of all, I think it is somewhat brash to claim that the reactionary people on this board fit into a certain age group. I really don't believe that to be the case, and I don't think the "18-24 year olds" are the ones throwing hissy fits about the insiders or claiming that they are going to abandon their fanhood.

Secondly, if journalists could only speculate about things that are definitely going to happen, then there would be a lot fewer things to talk about. His article is basically his opinion, and I personally think it is a valid one. Obviously, you do not. But the man is paid to write his opinions on what is going on in the sports world, so I don't see where he is at fault.

[rjslomo]

I'm going to have to hop on board with what Hank is saying in this thread. I will qualify everything I have to say with the qualifier that Hank and I work together and we have very similar thinking on all things O's. I understand why front office exec's don't go to messageboards. JTrea is almost trolling lately. It's just pathetic. Give the deal until Monday and, if it doesn't happen, I'll offer a formal apology. The only thing that matters is if the team is winning and if there are players of value on the O's that other teams want. We are too close to the team to have a objective reasoning for their reputation. It's time to stand back, enjoy a beer (or a homebrew *my new hobby), watch the Super Bowl or the commercials and be pleasantly suprised on Monday when the Bedard deal is announced.

My only concern is the lack of time before Spring Training before other moves might be made like Millar or Huff or Mora or Payton (although I see all of them on the Opening Day roster.