Sun-Times says O's want Cedeno, Gallagher, and 2 more prospects

[Ruzious]

I've said it a couple of times before and I will say it again. Rich Hill and Carlos Marmol have to be the #1 and #2 key players in the Roberts/Payton deal along with Murton and probably Patterson.

Dude? Dude. Oh, dude.

Cubbies would get a section 8 if they did that.

[Number5]

So you think he's worth Hill and Marmol? And more?

Worth it? Absolutely. You're talking about a #3SP with a 17-17 (4+ ERA) lifetime record and a set-up man.

Roberts is certainly not worth it to the Cubs right now, however, given their current roster. Such a trade would leave the Cubs with more holes and a worse overall team than they have now.

Talent-wise, without considering present team rosters and chemistry, a trade of Roberts for Hill and Marmol is not ridiculous. It is just simply not going to happen as things stand.

[B-Rob 4 sale]

Worth it? Absolutely. You're talking about a #3SP with a 17-17 (4+ ERA) lifetime record and a set-up man.

Roberts is certainly not worth it to the Cubs right now, however, given their current roster. Such a trade would leave the Cubs with more holes and a worse overall team than they have now.

Talent-wise, without considering present team rosters and chemistry, a trade of Roberts for Hill and Marmol is not ridiculous. It is just simply not going to happen as things stand.

No it ABSOLUTELY IS ridiculous. You want to give up a 30 year-old lead off man for a 27 year-old starting LH pitcher who was top 10 in the league in K's and posted a sub 4 era... AND a kid who is only 25 and MAYBE was the most dominant reliever in ALL of baseball last year?

YES, THAT WAS RIDICULOUS.

[Number5]

No it ABSOLUTELY IS ridiculous. You want to give up a 30 year-old lead off man for a 27 year-old starting LH pitcher who was top 10 in the league in K's and posted a sub 4 era... AND a kid who is only 25 and MAYBE was the most dominant reliever in ALL of baseball last year?

YES, THAT WAS RIDICULOUS.

FWIW, the initial rumors that came out on this, back in December, were Roberts for Hill and Pie.

The Cubs would never include Hill in a deal for Roberts, for the reasons I have stated, but you Cub fans are grossly overstating Hill's worth when you say he is more valuable than Brian Roberts.

Hill is coming off a career year, 11-8. And please, this is not a knock on Hill, it is simply a statement of the facts. If you must argue with the facts, that should give you an idea of the strength of your argument.

Marmol struggled in his attempts at being a SP, but found a real niche as a set-up man last year. He may even be a closer one day, but, from what I'm reading, both Howry and Wood have a better chance at closing this year.

Step away from being a Cub fan, if you can, and look realistically at the three players. The trade would be fair. There is just no chance that it will happen, given the Cubs current roster.

[RShack]

Is your theory basically "if you have 15 players you are happy with, you are a world series favorite?"

If so, here are the players I am personally happy with:

1) Soriano

2) Ramirez

3) D-Lee

4) Soto

5) Zambrano

6) Lilly

7) Marmol

8) Wuertz

9) Rich Hill

10) Bob Howry

11) Fukudome

12) DeRosa

13) Pie (big ?)

So, I guess we have a 13 player team if Pie comes through. I don't think Roberts changes that, unless he can revert back to playing SS.

Don't get me wrong, he is a great player, but we have more pressing holes than 2B (i.e., shortstop).

OK, if that's your opinion, then I can see how getting BRob is not very important to you.

On the other hand, if you thought he made the diff between a 12-Player Team and a 13-Player Team, then it would be absolutely crucial.

But if they're already a 13-Player Team, and if he won't make them a 14-Player Team, then I agree it's an optional thing to do... he'd strengthen the club, but it's not crucial.

Personally, I don't follow the Cubs closely enough to know if they're really a 13-Player Team, which is why I asked Cubs fans to tell me.

[B-Rob 4 sale]

FWIW, the initial rumors that came out on this, back in December, were Roberts for Hill and Pie.

The Cubs would never include Hill in a deal for Roberts, for the reasons I have stated, but you Cub fans are grossly overstating Hill's worth when you say he is more valuable than Brian Roberts.

Hill is coming off a career year, 11-8. And please, this is not a knock on Hill, it is simply a statement of the facts. If you must argue with the facts, that should give you an idea of the strength of your argument.

Marmol struggled in his attempts at being a SP, but found a real niche as a set-up man last year. He may even be a closer one day, but, from what I'm reading, both Howry and Wood have a better chance at closing this year.

Step away from being a Cub fan, if you can, and look realistically at the three players. The trade would be fair. There is just no chance that it will happen, given the Cubs current roster.

Career year? It was his FIRST FULL YEAR in the majors!!! How can you POSSIBLY say that's his "career year"? So what, he hit his ceiling in his first try in the majors? ARE YOU SERIOUS? That's proposterous. The fact is that in MANY cases, you Oriole fans are VASTLY OVERRATING Roberts. His value should naturally be reduced because of the fact that he ADMITTED to using performance enhacing drugs, even if it was only once. And I know you keep throwing this whole "he was our only all-star last year" thing up there.. But doesn't every team HAVE to have an all-star representative? He would have made it by default in that case anyways.

I just think you are being a little power and money hungry when it comes to Brian Roberts.

[Number5]

Career year? It was his FIRST FULL YEAR in the majors!!! How can you POSSIBLY say that's his "career year"? So what, he hit his ceiling in his first try in the majors? ARE YOU SERIOUS? That's proposterous. The fact is that in MANY cases, you Oriole fans are VASTLY OVERRATING Roberts. His value should naturally be reduced because of the fact that he ADMITTED to using performance enhacing drugs, even if it was only once. And I know you keep throwing this whole "he was our only all-star last year" thing up there.. But doesn't every team HAVE to have an all-star representative? He would have made it by default in that case anyways.

I just think you are being a little power and money hungry when it comes to Brian Roberts.

Anger is not necessary. I have not suggested a Hill & Marmol for Roberts trade. I have stated very clearly that it will never happen, IMO. I am, however, saying that there is nothing ridiculous about such a trade.

I have made no denigrating comment whatsoever about Hill or Marmol. Hill's lifetime record is 17-17, with a 4.387 ERA. This is a fact and is indisputable. Last year was his best year, with an 11-8 record. Again, a fact. You are arguing against the facts because you apparently believe that he will be better in the future. That is fine, and I don't fault you for that, but don't yell at me for stating the facts as they are.

Your insinuation that Roberts is an all-star only because every team has to have one was totally uncalled-for.

[section18]

I would do a 3 for 2 deal. Hill, Marmol and Murton for Roberts and Payton. Have Hill or Marmol been on the All-Star team? Are they the best pitchers on their team? The answer is no to both questions.

Hill has a career 17-17 record in 52 starts.CyYoung? Hardly! Great talent? Yes! But not Cy Young. He was 0-2with a 9.13 ERA in 4 starts in 2005, he was 6-7 with a 4.17 ERA in 2006 and was 11-8 with 3.92 ERA in 2007. Untouchable? No! Sean Marshall is 13-17 so far in 43 starts with a career ERA of 4.83. His numbers are almost as good as Hill's and I don't hear anyone saying Marshall is untouchable. How come?

Marmol was a starter in 06 with a 6.08 ERA. He dropped his ERA when he moved to the bullpen in 07 and finished with 1.43 ERA. Major change. Great numbers. Untouchable? Maybe......but one more year is needed before saying yes to that question.

If AM doesn't get Hill he should insist on Gallagher and Marshall along with Marmol. Anyone from Chicago that says they wouldn't trade Marmol for Roberts even up is living in fantasy land. The Orioles would never make that trade.

Getting these two players for Roberts is not ridiculous. Maybe the Chicago paper is half right. Gallagher, Cedeno, Marmol and Marshall for Roberts and Payton. I would rather have Murton than Cedeno. He has a shoulder problem right now and I think Murton is more of a sure thing. He can help us. We have some infielders available and some we can acquire for some pitching if we need to trade. We can probably get Barfield from Cleveland in a deal for some of our pitching if we need to.

[Lou Cub]

Anger is not necessary. I have not suggested a Hill & Marmol for Roberts trade. I have stated very clearly that it will never happen, IMO. I am, however, saying that there is nothing ridiculous about such a trade.

I have made no denigrating comment whatsoever about Hill or Marmol. Hill's lifetime record is 17-17, with a 4.387 ERA. This is a fact and is indisputable. Last year was his best year, with an 11-8 record. Again, a fact. You are arguing against the facts because you apparently believe that he will be better in the future. That is fine, and I don't fault you for that, but don't yell at me for stating the facts as they are.

Your insinuation that Roberts is an all-star only because every team has to have one was totally uncalled-for.

What are you smoking Number 5???? I'm not comparing Rich Hill to Greg Maddux but Maddux wasn't all that and a bag of chips upon coming to the bigs either, he struggled. If Rich Hill doesn't let baserunners get to him and fields his position better HE WILL WIN plenty more games per season. Marmol's name should never have come by any of you Oriole fans cause it's completely ludicrous!!! Whatever deal you make with the Cubs and Bruce Levine has just reported that Angelos won't interfere with any Roberts deal, you will be getting QUALITY, YOUNG and CHEAP TALENT in return. MacPhail highly praised both Marshall and Gallagher to Peter Gammons 2 years ago and it's well known that he thinks very highly of Ronny Cedeno as well. Roberts is great and there is no denying that but you guys treat him like a Hall Of Famer it's as ridiculous as most of the Cubs fans were with Mark Grace. Great player but not among the best in the big picture, worth 4 guys, not many people are and the 3 guys you want from the Cubs wether it's Veal, Marshall, Gally, E Patt, Cedeno are still better than what the Twins got for Johan.

[owl]

FWIW, the initial rumors that came out on this, back in December, were Roberts for Hill and Pie.

And they weren't any more true then than they are now. Remember when people would attack posters for saying then that it won't happen?

The Cubs would never include Hill in a deal for Roberts, for the reasons I have stated, but you Cub fans are grossly overstating Hill's worth when you say he is more valuable than Brian Roberts.

Hill is worth more than Roberts. But "value" has a lot more to do with the type of player... I believe you've stated yourself that 2B have less value than other positions. #2-3 lefty starting strikeout pitchers on the other hand have a sometimes inflated value. You say the Cubs wouldn't trade him but consider what team WOULD trade Rich Hill for Brian Roberts and then perhaps you'll see that he's more highly valued.

Hill is coming off a career year, 11-8. And please, this is not a knock on Hill, it is simply a statement of the facts. If you must argue with the facts, that should give you an idea of the strength of your argument.

That career year was his first full year! Roberts was what, .270/.340/.370 in his first full season? Please, this is simply a statement of facts.

Something clicked for Hill in 2005 and he found control; since, he's been very good and highly sought. These are his MiL numbers since A ball in 2004:

2005A	1-0, 1.13 ERA, 0.63 WHIP	1 GS, 8 IP, 5 H, 12 SO, 0 BBAA	4-3, 3.28 ERA, 1.09 WHIP	10 GS, 57.2 IP, 42 H, 90 SO, 21 BB (14.1 K9 / 3.3 BB9)AAA	6-1, 3.60 ERA, 1.03 WHIP	10 GS, 65.0 IP, 53 H, 92 SO, 14 BB (12.7 K9 / 1.9 BB9)2006AAA	7-1, 1.80 ERA, 0.83 WHIP	15 GS, 100 IP, 62 H, 135 SO, 21 BB (12.2 K9 / 1.9 BB9)

Hill pitched 100 ML innings in 2006--mostly all August and September--after those 15 starts at AAA and looked very good in the last half of those starts. Then, his sophomore year, first full season, he has this career year you mention. Yeah... so now that we have facts where was the deception of his 2007 season?

[Number5]

What are you smoking Number 5???? I'm not comparing Rich Hill to Greg Maddux but Maddux wasn't all that and a bag of chips upon coming to the bigs either, he struggled. If Rich Hill doesn't let baserunners get to him and fields his position better HE WILL WIN plenty more games per season. Marmol's name should never have come by any of you Oriole fans cause it's completely ludicrous!!! Whatever deal you make with the Cubs and Bruce Levine has just reported that Angelos won't interfere with any Roberts deal, you will be getting QUALITY, YOUNG and CHEAP TALENT in return. MacPhail highly praised both Marshall and Gallagher to Peter Gammons 2 years ago and it's well known that he thinks very highly of Ronny Cedeno as well. Roberts is great and there is no denying that but you guys treat him like a Hall Of Famer it's as ridiculous as most of the Cubs fans were with Mark Grace. Great player but not among the best in the big picture, worth 4 guys, not many people are and the 3 guys you want from the Cubs wether it's Veal, Marshall, Gally, E Patt, Cedeno are still better than what the Twins got for Johan.

This is amazing. I have accurately stated Rich Hill's numbers. Nothing more. I have said absolutely nothing untrue about him, and the only opinions I have put forth are that I like him and that I don't believe that he will be included in any trade for Roberts.

The facts are apparently considered an insult by Cub fans. I can't help you with that. I have not suggested that a Hill & Marmol is possible. I have, in fact, stated three times that there is no way it will happen IMO. The anger and yelling is uncalled-for. If you can show me that I am incorrect in stating Hill's record, then do so. To attribute any future possibilities to Hill as if they have already occurred would, I suspect, be more indicative of having smoked something than a simple statement of the actual numbers he has achieved.

[Ricky Bobby]

I dont know if this rumor had been posted or not nor if it is valid. It is interesting and matches up with Belkfast telling us a deal gets done soon.

"This morning it was reported that the Cubs had two scouts at the Orioles' spring game yesterday to watch Brian Roberts.

Now, several people have written in to let us now that Bruce Levine of ESPN 1000 is reporting that Peter Angelos has given Andy MacPhail the green light to trade Roberts. It has long been rumored that Angelos might have been holding up the trade to the Cubs because of his personal affection for Roberts. With Angelos' blessing, this deal may finally happen in the next few days." http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

[AgentOrange]

I find it funny that Ken Kravec went to our game again today and left when Roberts wasn't in the lineup.

That is really funny.

[mikezpen]

I am glad that Angelos is getting out of the way on this.But seeing what they're being offered, I don't get too excited.

[brvn52]

I was under the impression that he's had his blessing the whole time. Angelos had done NOTHING to indicate that he hasn't given MacPhail his blessing in EVERYTHING MacPhail has asked for.

Since Andy MacPhail took over, IMO, Angelos has been nothing but a great owner - allowing his baseball men to do their job and allowing for plenty of money to be spent to allow the team to build towards competing. The second part has never been too much of a problem, but the first part is a huge thing.