Sun-Times says O's want Cedeno, Gallagher, and 2 more prospects

[66-70-83-??]

JohnnyK, don't you think we've livened up your boards a bit ??? Cub fans are among the most knowledgeable and insanely loyal fans we are a rare breed and most of us know what were talking about. I agree you've gotta give up talent to get talent but a lot of you guys on this board keep naming guys that won't be dealt for BRob. There is no way that Jim Hendry is gonna deal Felix Pie, Tyler Colvin, Rich HIll, Carlos Marmol, Jose Ceda or Josh Vitters in a deal for BRob, the Mets didn't even give up anyone that talented for Johan Santana. BRob's great but he's not Cal Ripken Jr and a lot of you guys treat him as such. It's like the fetish many Cubs fans had with Mark Grace, yeah he was great but there are better and he ain't sniffing the Hall of Fame and neither is Brian Roberts.

Thanks, Jim.

I love how some just "know" what a GM will or won't do.

Rich Hill, I can agree with. Same for Marmol. They are in your plans now.

Colvin? You can keep him. Vitters? I doubt he is on the table too.

But, Ceda? Why not? Pie? Maybe if Crisp is acquired.

Maybe Pie and Ceda for BRob?

Maybe Gallagher, Cedeno, Patterson?

Who knows.

Here is an idea: how about we wait until a deal is done!

The topic has been hashed out and argued ad nauseum.

[fire83]

The other poster I responded to was talking about rumored offers as being some type of definite and that Hill would never be discussed. I was pointing out the fact that the first rumor was Hill and Pie. Please read nothing more into it than that. I was responding to a Cub fan's post.

Your "Hill is worth more than Roberts" comment is the type of comment I was responding to initially. I understand that the opinion among some Cub fans is that your statement is true, but I would doubt very seriously that it would be shared by many outside of Chicago. However, your statement is your opinion, only. Please don't try to claim that it is a fact.

I stated accurately what Hill's numbers have been. I have said nothing bad about the man. His numbers are his numbers. Your statement that he is a #2-3 starter is again your opinion only. He does happen to be the #3 on the Cubs staff. He does also happen to be 17-17 with a career 4.387 ERA.

As to your question about what team would make such a trade, a team with better SP options than the Cubs, without a viable 2B option would trade Hill and Marmol for Roberts in a heartbeat, IMO. The Cubs are simply not in a position to do so.

I'm not sure what you are arguing with me for. If I have inaccurately stated Hill's record, by all means correct me. Otherwise, don't fault me with responding to wild claims that Hill is worth more than Roberts. Remember, I was responding here, and I have said nothing derogatory about any Cub player, unless the facts are somehow considered derogatory.

There was never a chance of Hill and Pie for Roberts. Those guys were discussed when the Cubs were looking at Bedard as well. Never was Hill mentioned in a deal for Roberts, and him along with Pie would not be very smart. I believe you are the one trolling for an argument and then when you get it you back up and say "what did I do?" You take many things out of order and try to spin them into some kind of a deal. If you really think the Cubs would even consider Hill or Marmol in a deal for Roberts you are grossly overvalueing Roberts.

I believe a deal will happen, and unlike many Cubs fans I will be fine with the Cubs giving up Gallagher, Fontenot, Cedeno and Veal for Roberts and Payton. But, I tend to be one of the more realistic Cubs fans. Most think that is too much. That is why when the names you bring up are discussed people get angry.

There is nothing wrong with a good conversation regarding this trade. But for some reason no one seems to find the right value for Roberts. I have a feeling the FO of each team knows his value and fortunately neither will be as ridiculous as many fans are.

One final point: I do not care what position a team is in, there is no way ANY team in baseball, no matter how many pitchers they have and who they have playing second base, would deal two very promising young pitchers for a 30 year old second baseman, unless that second baseman was Utley (and then I still don't know for sure it they would).

[hoosiers]

JohnnyK, don't you think we've livened up your boards a bit ??? Cub fans are among the most knowledgeable and insanely loyal fans we are a rare breed and most of us know what were talking about. I agree you've gotta give up talent to get talent but a lot of you guys on this board keep naming guys that won't be dealt for BRob. There is no way that Jim Hendry is gonna deal Felix Pie, Tyler Colvin, Rich HIll, Carlos Marmol, Jose Ceda or Josh Vitters in a deal for BRob, the Mets didn't even give up anyone that talented for Johan Santana. BRob's great but he's not Cal Ripken Jr and a lot of you guys treat him as such. It's like the fetish many Cubs fans had with Mark Grace, yeah he was great but there are better and he ain't sniffing the Hall of Fame and neither is Brian Roberts.

And what if the Minny GM hadn't overplayed his hand and accepted the BoSox offer that included Lester and at least two other top 10 prospects or the NYY offer that included Hughes, a starting ML position player and another prospect.

Would you then believe the Cubs would offer more?

Regardless of your response, my guess is that the Santana dealing really doesn't have much to do with BRob's situation.

If you want BRob, then make a respectable offer. I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's annoying for people to come here and acknowledge that BRob is a quality player and then tell us that the top five or so prospects (including guys like Pie and Marmol) are off limits for that quality player.

[Number5]

There was never a chance of Hill and Pie for Roberts. Those guys were discussed when the Cubs were looking at Bedard as well. Never was Hill mentioned in a deal for Roberts, and him along with Pie would not be very smart. I believe you are the one trolling for an argument and then when you get it you back up and say "what did I do?" You take many things out of order and try to spin them into some kind of a deal. If you really think the Cubs would even consider Hill or Marmol in a deal for Roberts you are grossly overvalueing Roberts.

I believe a deal will happen, and unlike many Cubs fans I will be fine with the Cubs giving up Gallagher, Fontenot, Cedeno and Veal for Roberts and Payton. But, I tend to be one of the more realistic Cubs fans. Most think that is too much. That is why when the names you bring up are discussed people get angry.

There is nothing wrong with a good conversation regarding this trade. But for some reason no one seems to find the right value for Roberts. I have a feeling the FO of each team knows his value and fortunately neither will be as ridiculous as many fans are.

One final point: I do not care what position a team is in, there is no way ANY team in baseball, no matter how many pitchers they have and who they have playing second base, would deal two very promising young pitchers for a 30 year old second baseman, unless that second baseman was Utley (and then I still don't know for sure it they would).

Attention Cub fans: I did not bring up these names. I was responding to a Cub fan's post.

Fire83, you have accused me of trolling. I responded to a Cub fan's claims that Hill is worth more than Roberts. I never said one single derogatory word about Hill. I simply posted his record. Does the anger stem from the fact that Hill's numbers do not support claims that he is a more valuable player than Roberts? I cannot help you with that. His numbers are his numbers. Accurately quoting statistics in response to unsupported statements is not trolling.

BTW, your last paragraph is clearly your opinion, and should probably be framed as such.

[fire83]

Attention Cub fans: I did not bring up these names. I was responding to a Cub fan's post.

Fire83, you have accused me of trolling. I responded to a Cub fan's claims that Hill is worth more than Roberts. I never said one single derogatory word about Hill. I simply posted his record. Does the anger stem from the fact that Hill's numbers do not support claims that he is a more valuable player than Roberts? I cannot help you with that. His numbers are his numbers. Accurately quoting statistics in response to unsupported statements is not trolling.

BTW, your last paragraph is clearly your opinion, and should probably be framed as such.

Lets wait and see how this plays out. If Hill and or marmol is in the deal I will admit I am wrong. But if neither is I would expect the same from O's fans.

[Number5]

Lets wait and see how this plays out. If Hill and or marmol is in the deal I will admit I am wrong. But if neither is I would expect the same from O's fans.

What kind of statement is that? I never said that would be the trade. In fact, this is now the fifth time that I have said that it is my opinion that this will definitely not be the trade. The Cubs are clearly not in position to make a trade like that. Who is calling who a troll?

[jamesenoch]

Lets wait and see how this plays out. If Hill and or marmol is in the deal I will admit I am wrong. But if neither is I would expect the same from O's fans.

Obviously I have missed the posts from O's fans saying that Hill and/or Marmol will be in the trade for Roberts. Can you show me these posts?

[owl]

Owl, Last time. I have stated Hill's numbers accurately. I have not said one derogatory word about the man. I have never presented my opinion as a fact and have never belittled Hill.

You, on the other hand have called me absurd, have accused me of presenting my opinion as fact, have called Hill's won-loss and ERA record as being my opinion, and have stated that Hill is worth more than Roberts as a fact, rather than your opinion. You have also knowingly misquoted me numerous times.

If you wish to pursue reasonable baseball discussion, I'm with you. If you persist with this track, I'm afraid you will be ignored.

Yes, I said you were being absurd when you started being absurd. I don't see why you wish to put drama or personal comments in front of baseball discussion. You've been only beating around the bush since I tried to expand on your "facts." You keep using a win-loss record and 2007 ERA to discuss his value. Every time I try to broaden the discussion, you get defensive and pretend like anyone is calling you a liar for the numbers. Then you "concede" by pretending anyone is trying to put him in the Hall. And what's this "derogatory word" nonsense? Who said anything like that? Yes, this manner of discussion is being unreasonable and absurd, "IMO."

The comments about "opinion as fact" was sarcasm mimicking the stance you decided to take in that post. I even "winked." I've stated clearly numerous times that we know those numbers are facts, but I'm trying to show you even more facts -- but you're just getting angry and defensive with them. I've tried to bring context to it by asking what team would make the trade and you only give me a hypothetical situation and apparently took offense when I called it a hypothetical. We're not talking about personal feelings of the player nor even their actual production. Heck, I'm not even talking about a sabermetric value to the team. We're talking about market value and if all 30 teams would value Hill more than Roberts right now then it's a "stretch" to say the opposite. I thought perhaps you missed how highly sought Hill has been the last couple years -- he never really graced prospect lists since his breakout year he also jumped to the majors -- but you apparently refuse to discuss anything but 2007 win-loss record and ERA. It seemed rather apparent you were being disingenuous when you try to devalue him by calling his first full year a "career year" but I have been trying to pursue reasonable baseball discussion and that should be obvious.

[owl]

Your wasting your time 5 ... I call it trolling while others here defend this lunacy by saying that they are not trolling & just dont agree with my opinion.

I have all but stopped posting in the Roberts threads. Saying who would or would not be traded as a certainty for Roberts is well Blasphemy as neither the Cubs or O's decision makers are posting here. Honestly I'd like the trade announced or called off, so our less than 500 post visitors would return to the Cubs message boards.

Johnny, this post you made is a trolling post rather definitively. None of my posts have been trolling at all. It's discussing baseball still albeit a disagreement / misunderstanding while I've seen dozen of posts from you doing nothing but complaining in hyperbole that you don't like other posters and want them gone. Why can't everyone just be friendly?

[Number5]

Yes, I said you were being absurd when you started being absurd.

You are ignored.

[chicubsvatech]

I never called anyone a moron and resent you using my post as a way to make yourself look like some martyr. I was making points that fans for both teams can be unreasonable. Number 5 does a very good job of defending his posts and will do so again if necessary. You can tell by these posts a lot of fans on both sides are a little frustrated.

Yeah, I'm trying to be a martyr and die for my cause. Well put.

I come to this board to try to learn the latest on the Roberts deal, not to be obnoxious towards O's fans. You make Cubs fans look bad. Ease up, kid.

[owl]

You are ignored.

Number, who is after everyone's throats, put me on ignore. Oh no! When you have the dissenting opinion it's not very credible to side with "two ears clogged" conversation.

[CubbyFanForever]

According to ESPN 1000 in Chicago, Orioles owner Peter Angelos gave Andy McPhail the green light to make a trade. It is believed that Sean Gallagher, Ronny Cedeno, and at least two other players will be in a deal for Roberts.

[Mike B]

According to ESPN 1000 in Chicago, Orioles owner Peter Angelos gave Andy McPhail the green light to make a trade. It is believed that Sean Gallagher, Ronny Cedeno, and at least two other players will be in a deal for Roberts

If the players coming with those two are not named Colvin and Veal or Ceda than AM should tell the Cubs to move on.

[Crazysilver03]

Cool. I figured Angelos would honor Robert's wishes to play for a contender.