The This Team IS Done, We are Dumb and Nothing can Fix it MEGA THREAD

[ShaneDawg85]

This team is configured exactly the same way as last year when they won 96 games (and no, that doesn't automatically mean they'll repeat that this season). People can boohoo the non re-signings of Cruz and Markakis all they want but I will repeat:

Nelson Cruz has been worth 2.0 rWAR so far. Jimmy Paredes has been worth 1.3 rWAR so far. One makes like $14 million and the other makes the league minimum. They're both playing over their heads most likely, but I would venture to say that Cruz is playing far more over his head than Paredes.

Nick Markakis has been worth 0.2 rWAR so far. Travis Snider has been worth 0.6 rWAR so far.

Perhaps we haven't replaced Andrew Miller's production so far but you guys can piss and moan about us not paying a 40 inning reliever $10 million over four years all you want, I don't think you're going to get much support on that.

If Tillman, and especially Norris, pitched worth a damn we wouldn't be lamenting the loss of Andrew Miller because there would be less of a need to use him. The bullpen sucked at the beginning of the year but save for some hiccups here and there, which happen throughout the season, they've been fine. 2/5 of the starting rotation hasn't gotten it done, that hurts a lot more than not resigning Andrew Miller.

[Russsnyder]

This team is configured exactly the same way as last year when they won 96 games (and no, that doesn't automatically mean they'll repeat that this season). People can boohoo the non re-signings of Cruz and Markakis all they want but I will repeat:

Nelson Cruz has been worth 2.0 rWAR so far. Jimmy Paredes has been worth 1.3 rWAR so far. One makes like $14 million and the other makes the league minimum. They're both playing over their heads most likely, but I would venture to say that Cruz is playing far more over his head than Paredes.

Nick Markakis has been worth 0.2 rWAR so far. Travis Snider has been worth 0.6 rWAR so far.

Perhaps we haven't replaced Andrew Miller's production so far but you guys can piss and moan about us not paying a 40 inning reliever $10 million over four years all you want, I don't think you're going to get much support on that.

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! There is such a thing called the eye test. Have we replaced Markasis's defense? What about the pitches the batter in the lineup that batted before Cruz last year? They could not pitch around him. We have 8 games where we have scored three runs or less. There is a lot more to the game to than the analytics you are trying to apply. Pitch selection for the hitters in front of Cruz is enormous..

[Can_of_corn]

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! There is such a thing called the eye test. Have we replaced Markasis's defense? What about the pitches the batter in the lineup that batted before Cruz last year? They could not pitch around him. We have 8 games where we have scored three runs or less. There is a lot more to the game to than the analytics you are trying to apply. Pitch selection for the hitters in front of Cruz is enormous..

Whole herd of unicorns running around up in here.

[DrungoHazewood]

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! There is such a thing called the eye test. Have we replaced Markasis's defense? What about the pitches the batter in the lineup that batted before Cruz last year? They could not pitch around him. We have 8 games where we have scored three runs or less. There is a lot more to the game to than the analytics you are trying to apply. Pitch selection for the hitters in front of Cruz is enormous..

Yes, yes, yes... when analyzing results doesn't match up to your subjective eye test you need to ask yourself which is right. And sticking your thumb up in the air, closing one eye, and wingin' it is almost always better than data collection, analysis, and interpretation in context.

[ledzepp8]

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! There is such a thing called the eye test. Have we replaced Markasis's defense? What about the pitches the batter in the lineup that batted before Cruz last year? They could not pitch around him. We have 8 games where we have scored three runs or less. There is a lot more to the game to than the analytics you are trying to apply. Pitch selection for the hitters in front of Cruz is enormous..

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! The 2014 Orioles scored 4.35 runs per game. The 2015 Orioles are scoring 4.5 runs per game (and that's after an awful May).

Nick Markakis so far has a dWAR of -0.2.

Travis Snider so far has a dWAR of 0.2.

If you guys want to argue about keeping Cruz and Markakis, at least make valid arguments. But when you say our hitting and defense is worse without them, you look absolutely silly.

[Can_of_corn]

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! The 2014 Orioles scored 4.35 runs per game. The 2015 Orioles are scoring 4.5 runs per game (and that's after an awful May).

Nick Markakis so far has a dWAR of -0.2.

Travis Snider so far has a dWAR of 0.2.

If you guys want to argue about keeping Cruz and Markakis, at least make valid arguments. But when you say our hitting and defense is worse without them, you look absolutely silly.

No it is you and your defensive metrics that look silly. How many gold gloves does Snider have?

Exactly.

[DrungoHazewood]

Stop, Stop, Stop!!!!!! The 2014 Orioles scored 4.35 runs per game. The 2015 Orioles are scoring 4.5 runs per game (and that's after an awful May).

Nick Markakis so far has a dWAR of -0.2.

Travis Snider so far has a dWAR of 0.2.

If you guys want to argue about keeping Cruz and Markakis, at least make valid arguments. But when you say our hitting and defense is worse without them, you look absolutely silly.

I believe his point was that if WAR tells you Snider has outperformed Markakis then WAR is a bunch of hocus-pocus gobbledygook. You'll have to make a case with RBI and batting averages and, I suppose, tobacco-stained scouting reports to cover the defense.

[ledzepp8]

No it is you and your defensive metrics that look silly. How many gold gloves does Snider have?

Exactly.

Haha I knew there was something I forgot about!

[Russsnyder]

In the month of May 2.94 runs per game

Overall record 18-20

Only four teams have a worse record in the American League.

[mdbdotcom]

In the month of May 2.94 runs per game

Overall record 18-20

Only four teams have a worse record in the American League.

We. Are. Doomed.

[Russsnyder]

Stating the facts. I have been an O's fan for 51 years. I want them to succeed. But I am not going to be an apologist and a rubber stamp for everything they do. We could put Adam Jones on waivers and some posters and moderators would show their blind support for the move. Nothing this club does in their eyes can be a bad move. They will come up with a variety of acronyms to justify Adam Jones being cut. I have coached college and high school baseball for 31 years. I have always surrounded myself with good baseball people that challenge me. The media in this town writes out of fear that any criticism will result in lost advertising from the O's Buster Olney documented the tongue lashing he would receive from Angelos when he wrote anything critical about the club. The only media member that stands up to the Angelos regime is neither a viable nor a respected journalist. I want the best for this franchise. I am sorry I did not see the commitment to winning like I saw from the team 50 miles down the road.

[ArtVanDelay]

Stating the facts. I have been an O's fan for 51 years. I want them to succeed. But I am not going to be an apologist and a rubber stamp for everything they do. We could put Adam Jones on waivers and some posters and moderators would show their blind support for the move. Nothing this club does in their eyes can be a bad move. They will come up with a variety of acronyms to justify Adam Jones being cut. I have coached college and high school baseball for 31 years. I have always surrounded myself with good baseball people that challenge me. The media in this town writes out of fear that any criticism will result in lost advertising from the O's Buster Olney documented the tongue lashing he would receive from Angelos when he wrote anything critical about the club. The only media member that stands up to the Angelos regime is neither a viable nor a respected journalist. I want the best for this franchise. I am sorry I did not see the commitment to winning like I saw from the team 50 miles down the road.

All aboard the hyperbole train!

[DrungoHazewood]

Stating the facts. I have been an O's fan for 51 years. I want them to succeed. But I am not going to be an apologist and a rubber stamp for everything they do. We could put Adam Jones on waivers and some posters and moderators would show their blind support for the move. Nothing this club does in their eyes can be a bad move. They will come up with a variety of acronyms to justify Adam Jones being cut. I have coached college and high school baseball for 31 years. I have always surrounded myself with good baseball people that challenge me. The media in this town writes out of fear that any criticism will result in lost advertising from the O's Buster Olney documented the tongue lashing he would receive from Angelos when he wrote anything critical about the club. The only media member that stands up to the Angelos regime is neither a viable nor a respected journalist. I want the best for this franchise. I am sorry I did not see the commitment to winning like I saw from the team 50 miles down the road.

It doesn't help your case when you denigrate actual evidence and analysis, call anyone who isn't knee-jerk critical "apologists", and then pull out the old "I've been watching the game for 51 years and coached high school for 31 and I know better than you" card. For all I know you're right, but you haven't given us anything to go on beside pure opinion. A good place to start might be some actual analysis or narrative or something about why you believe the numbers (or "acronyms") you dismissed are so wrong. Or how you would have reconfigured the Orioles budget and roster to show a "commitment to winning" like the Nats supposedly do.

And your "facts" look pretty different than what I see. But then again I don't view the Orioles through the lens of what budget I would like them to have in an alternate reality, just through the one they actually have.

[DrungoHazewood]

Pitch selection for the hitters in front of Cruz is enormous..

One more thing. The most common hitter in front of Cruz last year was Adam Jones. He had a pretty good offensive year, a .780 OPS. This year he's most commonly hit in front of Delmon Young, and sometimes Travis Snider or Chris Davis, none of whom are hitting nearly as well as '14 Cruz. But strangely he's have a much better offensive year hitting in front of Young, Snider or Davis than he did hitting primarily in front of Cruz.

[WNY Orioles Fan]

Stating the facts. I have been an O's fan for 51 years. I want them to succeed. But I am not going to be an apologist and a rubber stamp for everything they do. We could put Adam Jones on waivers and some posters and moderators would show their blind support for the move. Nothing this club does in their eyes can be a bad move. They will come up with a variety of acronyms to justify Adam Jones being cut. I have coached college and high school baseball for 31 years. I have always surrounded myself with good baseball people that challenge me. The media in this town writes out of fear that any criticism will result in lost advertising from the O's Buster Olney documented the tongue lashing he would receive from Angelos when he wrote anything critical about the club. The only media member that stands up to the Angelos regime is neither a viable nor a respected journalist. I want the best for this franchise. I am sorry I did not see the commitment to winning like I saw from the team 50 miles down the road.

Preach on. People don't want to hear it but it's the truth. No one will ever convince me that we could not at least kept either Cruz or Miller if we were 100% committed to winning.