The This Team IS Done, We are Dumb and Nothing can Fix it MEGA THREAD

[Russsnyder]

[

Point well taken Drungo in regards to my earlier post. I apologize for my rant. I would have signed Andrew Miller. If you do not sign Miller, I would have paid for the additional year in Cruz?s contract. I would not have resigned Markakis. If you lose all three players you have to come up with more than Travis Snider to replace them.

According to Forbes the Orioles are 10th in all of baseball in operating income. According to baseball America http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2014-international-spending-team/ we are 29th out of 30 teams in international spending.

Our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/2015-organization-talent-rankings/

We are next to last in international spending, and our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. What does this say about our future? What is this organization?s plan? Is it to save money in order to pay the Nats a lump sum in the MASN dispute? Does Mr. Angelos want to put a winning team on the field, or is he more concerned about the bottom line.

[Crazysilver03]

[

Point well taken Drungo in regards to my earlier post. I apologize for my rant. I would have signed Andrew Miller. If you do not sign Miller, I would have paid for the additional year in Cruz?s contract. I would not have resigned Markakis. If you lose all three players you have to come up with more than Travis Snider to replace them.

According to Forbes the Orioles are 10th in all of baseball in operating income. According to baseball America http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2014-international-spending-team/ we are 29th out of 30 teams in international spending.

Our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/2015-organization-talent-rankings/

We are next to last in international spending, and our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. What does this say about our future? What is this organization?s plan? Is it to save money in order to pay the Nats a lump sum in the MASN dispute? Does Mr. Angelos want to put a winning team on the field, or is he more concerned about the bottom line.

Valid concerns. To be fair, before 2012 the Orioles were rated almost last in overall organization rankings by Fangraphs I think, saying the team had a pretty bleak future. Didn't seem to hold the team back.

[Can_of_corn]

[

Point well taken Drungo in regards to my earlier post. I apologize for my rant. I would have signed Andrew Miller. If you do not sign Miller, I would have paid for the additional year in Cruz?s contract. I would not have resigned Markakis. If you lose all three players you have to come up with more than Travis Snider to replace them.

According to Forbes the Orioles are 10th in all of baseball in operating income. According to baseball America http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2014-international-spending-team/ we are 29th out of 30 teams in international spending.

Our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/2015-organization-talent-rankings/

We are next to last in international spending, and our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. What does this say about our future? What is this organization?s plan? Is it to save money in order to pay the Nats a lump sum in the MASN dispute? Does Mr. Angelos want to put a winning team on the field, or is he more concerned about the bottom line.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/creating-an-expected-payroll-for-all-mlb-teams/

Look to me like the O's are spending about 11 million a year more then what should be expected.

And look where the Yankees are.

[weams]

Two games under .500. Finished.

[El Gordo]

Two games under .500. Finished.

2.5 G out of first. Fire sale!!

[ledzepp8]

In the month of May 2.94 runs per game

Overall record 18-20

Only four teams have a worse record in the American League.

Our pythagorean expected win/loss is 20-18. I can cherry pick too.

It's not even the point. You guys can bemoan how the team has played so far...but it has nothing to do with not having Cruz, Markakis or Miller. People are going to call you out on it every time.

[ledzepp8]

Stating the facts. I have been an O's fan for 51 years. I want them to succeed. But I am not going to be an apologist and a rubber stamp for everything they do. We could put Adam Jones on waivers and some posters and moderators would show their blind support for the move. Nothing this club does in their eyes can be a bad move. They will come up with a variety of acronyms to justify Adam Jones being cut. I have coached college and high school baseball for 31 years. I have always surrounded myself with good baseball people that challenge me. The media in this town writes out of fear that any criticism will result in lost advertising from the O's Buster Olney documented the tongue lashing he would receive from Angelos when he wrote anything critical about the club. The only media member that stands up to the Angelos regime is neither a viable nor a respected journalist. I want the best for this franchise. I am sorry I did not see the commitment to winning like I saw from the team 50 miles down the road.

Step one: Lose real arguments because you don't have actual facts.

Step two: Make up and destroy strawman arguments.

You can't name one person that has blind support of the team and the FO. There's no context to your Adam Jones scenario but for sake of argument, let's assume it would be a bad move. You can't name one person that wouldn't be critical of it. When you guys say things like, "I want them to succeed" or "I want the best for this franchise", it implies that you are the only ones and the people that oppose you in arguments don't want those same things. There are perfectly justifiable reasons for not resigning players like Nelson Cruz, Nick Markakis and Andrew Miller. There are perfectly justifiable reasons for resigning those types of players. But not resigning them doesn't make the FO idiots, it hasn't hurt this team, and it's a much better choice to make for a team like the Orioles. So when you guys argue incessantly that the Orioles are really missing those players and people provide you stats that say otherwise, you look foolish.

[ledzepp8]

[

Point well taken Drungo in regards to my earlier post. I apologize for my rant. I would have signed Andrew Miller. If you do not sign Miller, I would have paid for the additional year in Cruz?s contract. I would not have resigned Markakis. If you lose all three players you have to come up with more than Travis Snider to replace them.

According to Forbes the Orioles are 10th in all of baseball in operating income. According to baseball America http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2014-international-spending-team/ we are 29th out of 30 teams in international spending.

Our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/2015-organization-talent-rankings/

We are next to last in international spending, and our minor leagues are ranked 29th out of 30 teams. What does this say about our future? What is this organization?s plan? Is it to save money in order to pay the Nats a lump sum in the MASN dispute? Does Mr. Angelos want to put a winning team on the field, or is he more concerned about the bottom line.

You guys can assume that the Orioles have an infinite amount of money to spend on the team and that Angelos is just pocketing it, but it doesn't make it so. That being said, the bolded is obviously ridiculous. They've had a winning season the past three years, with two playoff appearances. He's putting a winning team on the field, because they aren't doing it the way you guys want them to is neither here nor there.

[DrungoHazewood]

Step one: Lose real arguments because you don't have actual facts.

Step two: Make up and destroy strawman arguments.

You can't name one person that has blind support of the team and the FO. There's no context to your Adam Jones scenario but for sake of argument, let's assume it would be a bad move. You can't name one person that wouldn't be critical of it. When you guys say things like, "I want them to succeed" or "I want the best for this franchise", it implies that you are the only ones and the people that oppose you in arguments don't want those same things. There are perfectly justifiable reasons for not resigning players like Nelson Cruz, Nick Markakis and Andrew Miller. There are perfectly justifiable reasons for resigning those types of players. But not resigning them doesn't make the FO idiots, it hasn't hurt this team, and it's a much better choice to make for a team like the Orioles. So when you guys argue incessantly that the Orioles are really missing those players and people provide you stats that say otherwise, you look foolish.

I think it's pretty obvious that, in the short term, the Orioles would have a few more wins had they resigned Cruz and Miller than they do now. But... in Cruz' case no one, not even the Mariners' promotional department, could have projected he'd be the best hitter in the AL so far in '15. So it's not an actionable thing - signing Cruz you'd have to expect a .800-something OPS out of him, with decline throughout his contract. The idea that you could go back in time and project Cruz to be great is ludicrous, it makes no sense.

But, they'd certainly be a couple games better for these past two months if they had Cruz instead of some combination of Paredes and Delmon and whatever. And they might have an extra win or two with Miller. If you wanted to be seriously pessimistic and bitter you might even say the O's could currently be in or nearer first place with Miller and Cruz, adding those 3 wins.

That's a very short-term, blinders-on view of things ignoring budgets and future projections and past history. It's 20/20 hindsight, ignoring the information we had six months ago, and dismissing a rational risk assessment. It's saying screw logic, screw the future, I want to roll the dice on today and somebody can figure out how to fix the mess tomorrow.

[Russsnyder]

Step one: Lose real arguments because you don't have actual facts.

Step two: Make up and destroy strawman arguments.

You can't name one person that has blind support of the team and the FO. There's no context to your Adam Jones scenario but for sake of argument, let's assume it would be a bad move. You can't name one person that wouldn't be critical of it. When you guys say things like, "I want them to succeed" or "I want the best for this franchise", it implies that you are the only ones and the people that oppose you in arguments don't want those same things. There are perfectly justifiable reasons for not resigning players like Nelson Cruz, Nick Markakis and Andrew Miller. There are perfectly justifiable reasons for resigning those types of players. But not resigning them doesn't make the FO idiots, it hasn't hurt this team, and it's a much better choice to make for a team like the Orioles. So when you guys argue incessantly that the Orioles are really missing those players and people provide you stats that say otherwise, you look foolish.

Even though we are 10th in all of baseball in operating budget I will go with the prevailing opinion on this forum that the prudent thing to do was to let the three free agents walk. Are you find with replacing them with Travis Snyder? I believe we have 12 free agents at the end of this year. Our minor league system is rated next to last in all of baseball. What is our plan?

[mdbdotcom]

Even though we are 10th in all of baseball in operating budget I will go with the prevailing opinion on this forum that the prudent thing to do was to let the three free agents walk. Are you find with replacing them with Travis Snyder? I believe we have 12 free agents at the end of this year. Our minor league system is rated next to last in all of baseball. What is our plan?

Just because you and I don't know what the plan is doesn't mean there is no plan. It's none of our business, frankly.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Even though we are 10th in all of baseball in operating budget I will go with the prevailing opinion on this forum that the prudent thing to do was to let the three free agents walk. Are you find with replacing them with Travis Snyder? I believe we have 12 free agents at the end of this year. Our minor league system is rated next to last in all of baseball. What is our plan?

I'd say guys like Wilson, Wright, Bundy, Gausman etc. will be counted on to step up. Aside from Chen us there really anybody irreplaceable?

[MemorialStadKid]

Stating the facts. I have been an O's fan for 51 years. I want them to succeed. But I am not going to be an apologist and a rubber stamp for everything they do. We could put Adam Jones on waivers and some posters and moderators would show their blind support for the move. Nothing this club does in their eyes can be a bad move. They will come up with a variety of acronyms to justify Adam Jones being cut. I have coached college and high school baseball for 31 years. I have always surrounded myself with good baseball people that challenge me. The media in this town writes out of fear that any criticism will result in lost advertising from the O's Buster Olney documented the tongue lashing he would receive from Angelos when he wrote anything critical about the club. The only media member that stands up to the Angelos regime is neither a viable nor a respected journalist. I want the best for this franchise. I am sorry I did not see the commitment to winning like I saw from the team 50 miles down the road.

Russ, when some folks are hardwired to defend the FO under any circumstance, they will find justifications for any horrible moves they make (or horrible non-moves). The stats are all some folks have to add to the discussion. Even though it's clear that Cruz and Miller will make us a better overall team, they'll tell you via a calculus formula that we're somehow "better" despite being in or near last place.

That is how screwed up the thought process can be so that the FO can be hailed as perfect.

I used to believe that FO members posted on here because I couldn't understand the slavish devotion to their poor management and offseason tactics, but now I realize it's deeper than that. Much deeper, and frankly more terrifying.

MSK

[Can_of_corn]

Russ, when some folks are hardwired to defend the FO under any circumstance, they will find justifications for any horrible moves they make (or horrible non-moves). The stats are all some folks have to add to the discussion. Even though it's clear that Cruz and Miller will make us a better overall team, they'll tell you via a calculus formula that we're somehow "better" despite being in or near last place.

That is how screwed up the thought process can be so that the FO can be hailed as perfect.

I used to believe that FO members posted on here because I couldn't understand the slavish devotion to their poor management and offseason tactics, but now I realize it's deeper than that. Much deeper, and frankly more terrifying.

MSK

I think pretty much everyone would admit that Cruz and Miller, if somehow the O's budget were increased to include them, would make the team better this year.

[mdbdotcom]

Russ, when some folks are hardwired to defend the FO under any circumstance, they will find justifications for any horrible moves they make (or horrible non-moves). The stats are all some folks have to add to the discussion. Even though it's clear that Cruz and Miller will make us a better overall team, they'll tell you via a calculus formula that we're somehow "better" despite being in or near last place.

That is how screwed up the thought process can be so that the FO can be hailed as perfect.

I used to believe that FO members posted on here because I couldn't understand the slavish devotion to their poor management and offseason tactics, but now I realize it's deeper than that. Much deeper, and frankly more terrifying.

MSK

Imagine, we are an entire game behind the division leader in the loss column and only a few enlightened souls have started sharpening their pitchforks.