This is A Mess (Mega RANT Thread)

[DrungoHazewood]

To go from clearly the best team of the division to just another team trying to grind out a division title, tells me that our offseason was not that great and our GM had some missteps.

It tells me that teams that jump forward one year have a strong tendency to fall back the next. Especially when they got some excellent performances from Cruz and Miller and we knew they were going to be impossible to keep with rational decision-making. To this minute the primary difference between last year's wildly successful team and this year's is Tillman and Norris. Last year they gave us 377 innings of a 3.48. This year its 142 of about a 6.00. Even if you were one of the crystal ball readers who just knew deep in your heart that they'd decline this year there's no way you'd have predicted that.

If Norris and Tillman had been healthy and pitching to their career FIPs the O's would probably be 4-5 games better.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't think trading Bud was the answer in the offseason. We had Tillman' date=' Chen and Miggy we could count on. Ubaldo was assumed to be horrible, leaving two holes without Bud. Even if KG had locked down one of them (We have no idea if he could have), who was going to be trusted to the other one? No one was ready to see Wright or Wilson starting the year in the majors and no one wanted to trust Ubaldo.[/quote']

It wasn't. It would have left the team with five established-ish starters, one of whom was awful last year. And I think it's a little silly to think that some team was going to pay a big price for a year of a guy with a career ERA of 4.23 and an $8M salary. You'd have been lucky to get another Travis Snider type player in return.

[Bahama O's Fan]

He looked pretty equivalent to Bud and the others last season. Don't see why you couldn't project him as part of the rotation.

Okay, so let's assume KG was given a rotation spot and Bud was traded for whatever. Should Ubaldo have been given the #5 spot? Who else could you trust that to? Wilson or Wright? Not during the offseason.

[Can_of_corn]

Okay' date=' so let's assume KG was given a rotation spot and Bud was traded for whatever. Should Ubaldo have been given the #5 spot? Who else could you trust that to? Wilson or Wright? Not during the offseason.[/quote']

Considering his contract I would have given first shot to Ubaldo.

I would have also signed some sort of AAAA insurance policy, to give Wright and Wilson some more time to develop.

[bobmc]

Considering his contract I would have given first shot to Ubaldo.

I would have also signed some sort of AAAA insurance policy, to give Wright and Wilson some more time to develop.

Like bringing back Steve Johnson or this guy?

[Can_of_corn]

Like bringing back Steve Johnson or this guy?

Yep, something of that sort.

[Aristotelian]

Okay' date=' so let's assume KG was given a rotation spot and Bud was traded for whatever. Should Ubaldo have been given the #5 spot? Who else could you trust that to? Wilson or Wright? Not during the offseason.[/quote']

You can go back and read the posts. It's all there. I have been a big believer in Wilson all along. Tillman, Chen, Mig, Gausman would have been the core. Hope for Ubaldo to return to form. A reasonable assumption that he could pitch well enough to hold down the #5 for a while. You still have Wilson and Wright as the backup plan. I was not the only one who proposed this.

I believe they did try to trade Bud. How do you know he had any value at an 8.8 mil contract? It's not like a GMs don't look beyond wins and losses these days. Look what the value for Jim Johnson was coming off 2 50+ save seasons. GM's aren't stupid.

I would have been just fine with a Jemile Weeks type player (or less) in return for Bud. Again, this was all discussed at the time and not just hindsight. I have to think somebody would have done that for a guy who is an established MLB level SP.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I would have been just fine with a Jemile Weeks type player (or less) in return for Bud. Again, this was all discussed at the time and not just hindsight. I have to think somebody would have done that for a guy who is an established MLB level SP.

Weeks was a little more than nothing and Johnson was, for all practical purposes, a salary dump. If that's the point then you just don't arb Norris. I don't remember very much call for that in the offseason. Even a career averagish Norris was a very acceptable move considering the questions with our starting staff.

[Aristotelian]

Weeks was a little more than nothing and Johnson was, for all practical purposes, a salary dump. If that's the point then you just don't arb Norris. I don't remember very much call for that in the offseason. Even a career averagish Norris was a very acceptable move considering the questions with our starting staff.

Nontendering Bud was not really on the table. Bud had been a good MLB starting pitcher and you don't just get rid of those guys. I think DD reasonably valued Bud at higher than $8.8M. I did too. I think it would have been reasonable to offer arbitration but seek to trade him for a role player. It's possible that DD was the only GM in the league who valued Bud at $8.8M but I truly think he could have found a trade partner even at that salary. Bud put up 1.4 to 1.9 WAR the previous three years. $8.8M and a prospect would be a reasonable price to pay for that.

[CA-ORIOLE]

At the end of the day the team we had last year at the end of the season was by far the class of the division.

So far the team we have seen this season is pretty much what its record is. There is no team that appears to be the class of the division, Orioles included. To go from clearly the best team of the division to just another team trying to grind out a division title, tells me that our offseason was not that great and our GM had some missteps. None of that means he sucks, was distracted or should be raked over the coals, but it is a bummer and feels like a wasted opportunity. Certainly there is time to right the ship and address some issues the team has but I also fear that in doing so we will have to further deplete a depleted farm system.

The division is better than last year. Economics are economics. I believe DD did what he thought was best to field as a competitive a team as possible within his financial constraints (inluding the effects of unfavorable long term contracts). There are certainly moves I disagreed with (i.e Matusz, Young) or were indifferent (mostly) about. I was upset we didn't get Matt Kemp. Shows you what I know. That said, Bundy for Kemp might not be that bad going forward.

If people's main point is the losing streak and bottom line of today's W-L record than that is fine. The season is not over yet as far as I can tell. From day one I have felt the team can be competitive. I still feel that way, though I admit it is looking like a tough climb considering the competition and I'm basically against trading more prospects, even young BP arms, for rentals. I'm content to ride it out with what we have. Hopefully some guys like Schoop, Paredes, Gausman, Joseph can continue to perform and/or develop. Not to mention Manny. If they want to dump Norris or give up on Parmelee then that's fine also.

Worse case it's a flat year. We just had 4 drafts picks essentially in the top 100. We have a good core of players to work with next year. We'll have financial flexibility in what looks like a good FA year and we'll probably be getting more draft picks with several QO candidates. I can live with that going forward. it's certainly be disappointing if we're not in the playoff mix this year.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Nontendering Bud was not really on the table. Bud had been a good MLB starting pitcher and you don't just get rid of those guys. I think DD reasonably valued Bud at higher than $8.8M. I did too. I think it would have been reasonable to offer arbitration but seek to trade him for a role player. It's possible that DD was the only GM in the league who valued Bud at $8.8M but I truly think he could have found a trade partner even at that salary. Bud put up 1.4 to 1.9 WAR the previous three years. $8.8M and a prospect would be a reasonable price to pay for that.

Your assumption/insistence seems to be that there was just this value and demand out there for Norris. I'm saying maybe there wasn't. As far as I know they did try and shop him, Now you're throwing out very favorable numbers for Norris to make a case that there was value for him. I can throw out far less valuable numbers and make case he had more value to the Orioles as a starter and for starting depth then he had in trade value.

[Can_of_corn]

Your assumption/insistence seems to be that there was just this value and demand out there for Norris. I'm saying maybe there wasn't. As far as I know they did try and shop him, Now you're throwing out very favorable numbers for Norris to make a case that there was value for him. I can throw out far less valuable numbers and make case he had more value to the Orioles as a starter and for starting depth then he had in trade value.

Wasn't much of a market for pitching last offseason.

[Fuzzball22]

Remember we were a step away from the World Series. You would think this would the time to pull the trigger on a trade or sign a FA or two. We lost three very good players and got little to nothing in return. I don't blame DD. We all knows who signs the checks.

Maybe DD wanted to sign Cruz but someone said not for that much money.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Wasn't much of a market for pitching last offseason.

Wasn't a market or wasn't much on the market?

[Can_of_corn]

Wasn't a market or wasn't much on the market?

Demand seemed low.