This is A Mess (Mega RANT Thread)

[Frobby]

With respect, an injury to a AAA/AA arm and Low A arm can't be the lynchpin issue for a competitive organization's pitching staff.

I don't really understand what you mean by "the lynchpin issue." I think our strategy for next year would be a bit different if Bundy was healthy and looking like a realistic option for our 2016 rotation, that is all.

[eddie83]

DD isn't a GM that runs his mouth.

So he likes our guys in the system, that's not a bad thing.

It is his job to fill holes on the team. After Nick and Cruz left he talked about how much he liked the internal options we have. If they are so good then let's see them.

[Stotle]

We lost for 14 seasons. In 2012 we made the playoffs and in 2013 were a game out of the postseason with around 11 games left. You honestly think a team is going to deal players like Davis and Wieters so they can improve their system for down the road?

The two of them combined to produce 4.5 to 5 wins of value over the past 1.5 seasons, and you don't even consider the value you are adding 1) through the trade and 2) having an additional $17 MM to spend in 2014 and $20 MM to spend this year. Again, I think you need to broaden your thinking.

[Stotle]

I don't really understand what you mean by "the lynchpin issue." I think our strategy for next year would be a bit different if Bundy was healthy and looking like a realistic option for our 2016 rotation, that is all.

I'm saying the outlook for a competitive team shouldn't hinge on whether or not Bundy and Harvey are available in a particular year.

[Frobby]

It is his job to fill holes on the team. After Nick and Cruz left he talked about how much he liked the internal options we have. If they are so good then let's see them.

What are you even talking about? He's brought up Reimold and Parmelee. How many guys do you expect him to promote at one time?

In any event, Duquette never said he expected the other OF options to replace the combined production of Cruz and Markakis. If he head said that, no right-thinking fan would have believed him. What he said was that with Manny and Wieters returning, Davis coming off his suspension plus the OF options, he felt the offense would be solid. And for the most part, he has been correct. We are 5th in the league in runs/game, compared to 6th last year.

[Redskins Rick]

What are you even talking about? He's brought up Reimold and Parmelee. How many guys do you expect him to promote at one time?

In any event, Duquette never said he expected the other OF options to replace the combined production of Cruz and Markakis. If he head said that, no right-thinking fan would have believed him. What he said was that with Manny and Wieters returning, Davis coming off his suspension plus the OF options, he felt the offense would be solid. And for the most part, he has been correct. We are 5th in the league in runs/game, compared to 6th last year.

Nice response and I agree.

[Frobby]

I'm saying the outlook for a competitive team shouldn't hinge on whether or not Bundy and Harvey are available in a particular year.

All I said was, "[t]he injuries to Bundy and Harvey have really set us back in our efforts to develop a top of rotation guy, to be sure." Can that be disputed?

I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that a competitive organization should have more than two guys in their system with TOR potential, so that injuries won't set them back? Are you saying that a competitive organization shouldn't count on development of its top prospects? Or are you saying something else entirely?

[Stotle]

All I said was, "[t]he injuries to Bundy and Harvey have really set us back in our efforts to develop a top of rotation guy, to be sure." Can that be disputed?

I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that a competitive organization should have more than two guys in their system with TOR potential, so that injuries won't set them back? Are you saying that a competitive organization shouldn't count on development of its top prospects? Or are you saying something else entirely?

No, I misread your statement. Sorry, didn't see it was limited to a front end guy.

As to your question, yeah I think you need to have a system flush with arms with an acquisition approach that takes into account high flameout rates. Unfortunate that Bundy was injured. The same, Baltimore made the decision to utilize Gausman as a part time, moveable piece rather than focusing on development. No reason he couldn't/can't be a front end solution, but the organization seems more focused on getting max "now" value out of him. Not saying they are wrong, or that he won't continue to develop, but it's a contrast to how we see other organizations treat their top arms, no?

[VICIOUS]

In my opinion I think the minor league shuffle should be used for pitching or injuries only. The constant shuffling of the starting 9 hasn't been very helpful. Stick with the guys you have or replace them.

[Frobby]

No, I misread your statement. Sorry, didn't see it was limited to a front end guy.

As to your question, yeah I think you need to have a system flush with arms with an acquisition approach that takes into account high flameout rates. Unfortunate that Bundy was injured. The same, Baltimore made the decision to utilize Gausman as a part time, moveable piece rather than focusing on development. No reason he couldn't/can't be a front end solution, but the organization seems more focused on getting max "now" value out of him. Not saying they are wrong, or that he won't continue to develop, but it's a contrast to how we see other organizations treat their top arms, no?

I don't pay much attention to what other teams do with their minor leaguers. You undoubtedly pay much closer attention than I do. The handling of Gausman has been erratic at best, no question about that, and I can't really think of a prior Orioles top prospect who was handled in a similar way. I hope he can continue to develop despite his erratic treatment. We certainly saw enough good starts from him last season to hope that this will be the case.

[eddie83]

The two of them combined to produce 4.5 to 5 wins of value over the past 1.5 seasons, and you don't even consider the value you are adding 1) through the trade and 2) having an additional $17 MM to spend in 2014 and $20 MM to spend this year. Again, I think you need to broaden your thinking.

You talk about the risks of FA and then talk about the extra money we would have? Where else other than FA's would the money go? Cruz and Ubaldo aren't signed if you trade those two either. You do not forfeit draft picks right after you deal two of your better players. At what point do you stop? Do you trade any veteran with value?

[Stotle]

You talk about the risks of FA and then talk about the extra money we would have? Where else other than FA's would the money go? Cruz and Ubaldo aren't signed if you trade those two either. You do not forfeit draft picks right after you deal two of your better players. At what point do you stop? Do you trade any veteran with value?

You're bouncing around different issues. Also, I didn't say you can go sign $17 MM/20 MM worth of free agents -- though you certainly could. I said you have that money available to spend (extensions, international spend, taking on a player in trade that might have otherwise pushed you past your budget, etc.).

The macro issue is Baltimore wants to be a competitive major league team and also needs to pay some attention to building for the future if they want to have any sustainable success. That's it.

The facts are as follows: We know Baltimore has been trading talent out of the minors. We know Baltimore gave up draft picks for free agents. We know Baltimore isn't interested in the higher-end J2 market. We know Baltimore is going to be a middle of the road payroll.

This leadership has proven innovative and impressive in managing the 40 man and 25 man in order to keep this club competitive the past two seasons. They have done so while seeing the minor league talent pool shrink considerably. You have to address that. Trading a high value asset and replacing the production with less expensive talent (or improvements elsewhere) is one way to do that. If you think there is a better solution I'm all ears. I'm just stating that being locked into buy/sell is a dumb way to do business in today's game.

[eddie83]

What are you even talking about? He's brought up Reimold and Parmelee. How many guys do you expect him to promote at one time?

In any event, Duquette never said he expected the other OF options to replace the combined production of Cruz and Markakis. If he head said that, no right-thinking fan would have believed him. What he said was that with Manny and Wieters returning, Davis coming off his suspension plus the OF options, he felt the offense would be solid. And for the most part, he has been correct. We are 5th in the league in runs/game, compared to 6th last year.

The constant shuffling of OF's is a big reason we have had roster issues all year. Maybe if we have 7 guys in the pen last Thursday Roe isn't asked to pitch a second inning. How can you expect any of these players to produce at any consistent level battling for at bats with one another? If we had at least one player that our manger trusted we could alleviate a lot of the roster issues going on. The constant juggling around of players in an era of 4 man benches is not the best way to get quality results.

We have scored 70 runs in 13 games vs Boston.

68 runs vs Toronto in 12 games.

54 vs NYY in 10 games.

30 runs vs Phillies in 4 games.

All of those games were played in April and June. I remember in 2013 our offense doing very well the first half of they year and then we slowed down in the 2nd half and hoped that Uruttia would help. I just think we need something better than what we have now.

[Herman]

This is what dumpster diving gets you.

But it's not DD's choice that he's been given such a meager allowance.

Agreed. This team has a bunch of platoon players that requires routine roster manipulation.

[SteveO]

Agreed. This team has a bunch of platoon players that requires routine roster manipulation.

So you agree a 120 million dollar payroll is a "meager allowance" ? That is downright funny. If you want to be critical of how the money was spent then that is prob fair game but to say that the team is cheap or operates on a meager allowance is just utterly silly.

Show me one MLB team that does not engage in roster manipulation. The O's may be on the extreme of that occasion but not all that is by design.