This is A Mess (Mega RANT Thread)

[Crazysilver03]

You can keep typing that but it just isn't so. Pearce, Snider, and De Aza were three big pieces of the plan and none of them are AAAA players. They just aren't.

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And people dont want to admit that DD won both DeAza trades.

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[LookitsPuck]

De Aza had been trending down for some time. Pearce had a career year but also injury prone. Snider had one nice half season but the rest were largely let downs. I'm sorry you can't just take a bunch of meh and hope it replaces 2 consistent and predictable cogs like Markakis and Cruz.

[LookitsPuck]

And people dont want to admit that DD won both DeAza trades.

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Jury is still out on Gunkel. But producing well in minors.

[LookitsPuck]

So, are they AAAA or not? That was what you called them.

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De Aza and Snider? Yes. Pearce? Not so much. My AAAA comments have been directed at the half dozen players rotated in and out of those 2 positions.

[LookitsPuck]

One sure way to lose all credibility in my eyes is to Monday morning QB things that were clearly not bad decisions at the time but turned out wrong. Everyone knew Arrieta was done here. Some of the same people screaming about how bad the trade is now were screaming for us to just release him then. Citing that trade as an example of a bad decision is just really, really pitiful revisionism. (Unless someone can point to that position at the time,which they can't. there was a poll)

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The Arrieta situation is more of an indictment on how craptastic our player development is than it is the trade, IMHO.

[theobird]

One sure way to lose all credibility in my eyes is to Monday morning QB things that were clearly not bad decisions at the time but turned out wrong. Everyone knew Arrieta was done here. Some of the same people screaming about how bad the trade is now were screaming for us to just release him then. Citing that trade as an example of a bad decision is just really, really pitiful revisionism. (Unless someone can point to that position at the time,which they can't. there was a poll)

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OK, I will bite. Jake was my favorite of all of the Cavalry arms. I said it a hundred times, that he had the highest ceiling and the best arm of all of them. And no, you do not trade a young arm of that quality for a journeyman rental like Feldman. Ever. Not to mention Pedro Strope. Sorry, it was a very stupid trade, and you cannot defend it.

[Crazysilver03]

All I ask is that people be fair and equal about stuff. There is plenty of real stuff to be upset about this year so I totally don't understand the hyperbole and made up stuff.

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Completely agree so why is it listed as a DD trade failure or his failure at all?

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THIS. So much of THIS.

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[tntoriole]

OK, I will bite. Jake was my favorite of all of the Cavalry arms. I said it a hundred times, that he had the highest ceiling and the best arm of all of them. And no, you do not trade a young arm of that quality for a journeyman rental like Feldman. Ever. Not to mention Pedro Strope. Sorry, it was a very stupid trade, and you cannot defend it.

Does it occur to you that maybe the change of scenery or the Cubs pitching coach, Chris Bosio, helped Jake improve? He was completely lost here and he was not going to succeed here. He would have been DFAd. The trade in retrospect looks worse than at the time.

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[Stotle]

Completely agree so why is it listed as a DD trade failure or his failure at all?

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I'll chime in and just note that I believe Duquette's lack of a history with Arrieta gave him comfort in cutting bait when he didn't need to. Had Duquette been the GM in charge when Arrieta was drafted I think he would have had different priorities with respect to that player. That said, the organization as a whole was not doing what it needed to do with Arrieta, and Arrieta was probably a little frustrated and not as open to some things as he could have been given everything going on.

[Stotle]

I just don't know what DD's options even were in 2013 other than what he did. He clearly wasn't going to pitch for us in the majors that year as he was gasoline on a fire. He was pitching poorly in Norfolk and he was out of options after 2013 so he couldn't be stashed down there anymore. DD could have ridden him out the last 4 months and hoped the light went on, but after 4 years of worsening results, that decision would have been basically indefensible.

We clearly screwed up Jake (although I think Jake clearly owns some of it too), but it was too late in 2013 for any other course of action IMO. What would you have done in his shoes?

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I would have cleaned-up his tempo and timing some to get the execution more consistent and revamped his pitch selection to be more cutter/slider heavy (In hindsight -- worked for the Cubs!).

In all honesty, I would have demoted him to Bowie or Frederick, maybe have him switch to throwing exclusively out of the stretch or whatever it took to try and get him to find some more consistency. But I don't fault Duquette for jumping at an opportunity to get a major league piece. At the time I said that I thought 2012's success was a curse in that it pushed the FO into "win now" mode too early, and I believe Arrieta was a casualty of that unfortunate situation.

[24fps]

I'd say it was a bad plan. Because it assumed the rest of the division did nothing to improve and banked entirely on AAAA players panning out and everyone being healthy and productive. That's a poor plan.

Unlike the Cherington off season plan which did so much to improve both the 2015 Red Sox and the arc of his career.

[Rene88]

It is funny because I think I'm classified as one of the blind defenders yet I advocated trading Norris last offseason, didn't want to tender Hunter or De Aza, and advocated matching the Cruz contract. I wish someone could explain why people insist on shoving gray things into black and white boxes.

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Good post sir and I am not a "Nats fanboy" either but...LOL

The Us vs. Them continues bc of a few. This is a terrific point.

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[Horsepower]

Who is the leader of this team? I really dont see anyone filling the void of Markakis. His presence on the team was deeply undervalued.

Someone needs to step up.

[Stotle]

So, you would have tried again to fix him and risked losing him for nothing in 4 months? Because, if he didn't straighten out in those 4 months after 4 years of increasingly poor pitching, he was DFA the next spring for sure. That is a path but I certainly don't blame him for not doing that.

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I don't view 15 Scott Feldman starts as much more than "nothing", so it's not as black and white for me. Duquette also included Strop on top of it. Careful -- the more you have me thinking about this the more I'm starting to think it was a Duquette mistake as opposed to botched development Duquette tried to salvage...

[eddie83]

So, you would have tried again to fix him and risked losing him for nothing in 4 months? Because, if he didn't straighten out in those 4 months after 4 years of increasingly poor pitching, he was DFA the next spring for sure. That is a path but I certainly don't blame him for not doing that.

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He did have an option left. That being said in spite of Arrieta we made postseason in 2012 and our strarting pitching was inconsistent in 2013 and Arrieta was given another chance. I just don't think he would have worked out here. Hard to fathom him making the rotation in 2014. He needed a change of scenery.