A Look Back At David Ortiz's Highlights Against The Orioles

[Ruzious]

Rice was a below-average outfielder, but he was at least competent enough where he played the outfield in about 70% of his games. Ortiz, on the other hand, played only 15% of his games at 1B. Ortiz pretty clearly was the better hitter, but he was basically unusable in the field, whereas Rice was at least serviceable. By rWAR, Ortiz had the slightly more valuable career, 50 to 47, mostly because he was still a good hitter in his late 30's whereas Rice was done at age 36.

But those 70% and 15% numbers don't necessarily mean anything about their abilities - other than their abilities compared to their teammates. And for all we know, Rice played the OF rather than DH because Boston thought he'd hit better if he was more involved in the game. Jim Rice was a bad OFer when I saw him in his prime, and he was terrible in his later years, so I don't buy off on the view that he was even a little bit better defender than Ortiz.

[Frobby]

But those 70% and 15% numbers don't necessarily mean anything about their abilities - other than their abilities compared to their teammates. And for all we know, Rice played the OF rather than DH because Boston thought he'd hit better if he was more involved in the game. Jim Rice was a bad OFer when I saw him in his prime, and he was terrible in his later years, so I don't buy off on the view that he was even a little bit better defender than Ortiz.

Well, you are entitled to hold that opinion. But both these guys had very long careers, and I think whether their managers chose to play them in the field or not says a lot about their relative defensive capabilities. And I'm certainly not claiming that Rice was a good outfielder. But apparently the Red Sox thought he was better than an aging Carl Yastrzemski, who won a Gold Glove in 1977 but yielded to Rice beginning in '78.

[Ruzious]

Well, you are entitled to hold that opinion. But both these guys had very long careers, and I think whether their managers chose to play them in the field or not says a lot about their relative defensive capabilities. And I'm certainly not claiming that Rice was a good outfielder. But apparently the Red Sox thought he was better than an aging Carl Yastrzemski, who won a Gold Glove in 1977 but yielded to Rice beginning in '78.

No, it meant that Yaz was 38 years old and couldn't physically play the OF every day. Him winning a Gold Glove didn't mean anything. Putting in all these irrelevant facts doesn't do anything to make your case. Unless you're younger than I think you are, you watched him play a lot and should have an opinion based on that.

[El Gordo]

Fond memories of two swell guys.

[video=youtube;bTpAD2oIli0]

[MDtransplant757]

He'll only get a farewell from Sawx nation (who I hate) and the boston bandwaggoners, cause Yankee fans have no class, O's fans hate him for beating up on us for years, tampa has no fans, and the jays will chuck beer at him and little kids

[SteveO]

Rice was a below-average outfielder, but he was at least competent enough where he played the outfield in about 70% of his games. Ortiz, on the other hand, played only 15% of his games at 1B. Ortiz pretty clearly was the better hitter, but he was basically unusable in the field, whereas Rice was at least serviceable. By rWAR, Ortiz had the slightly more valuable career, 50 to 47, mostly because he was still a good hitter in his late 30's whereas Rice was done at age 36.

I got friends who are Red Sox fans who swear up and down Big Papi is a first ballot hall of famer. I don't see him as a hall of famer juice or no juice. Hall of Pretty Good? Yea. Hall Of Fame....not so much.

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[25 Nuggets]

I got friends who are Red Sox fans who swear up and down Big Papi is a first ballot hall of famer. I don't see him as a hall of famer juice or no juice. Hall of Pretty Good? Yea. Hall Of Fame....not so much.

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Get used to that. Sawx nation is going to heavily campaign for his HOF induction.

[OsLuvrInKy]

I got friends who are Red Sox fans who swear up and down Big Papi is a first ballot hall of famer. I don't see him as a hall of famer juice or no juice. Hall of Pretty Good? Yea. Hall Of Fame....not so much.

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Only if the Hall of Fame has a section for A-holes......:rofl:

[weams]

I'm pissed at the Orioles for not making that slacker Bobby Bonilla at least come to spring training each year. Even Albert Belle did.

[Snutchy]

If no one wanted to read the article, why come into the thread related to the article just to complain about it? Wouldn't it have been easier to ignore the thread?

I enjoyed the article.

[weams]

I enjoyed the article.

Paul is an artist.

[DrungoHazewood]

But those 70% and 15% numbers don't necessarily mean anything about their abilities - other than their abilities compared to their teammates. And for all we know, Rice played the OF rather than DH because Boston thought he'd hit better if he was more involved in the game. Jim Rice was a bad OFer when I saw him in his prime, and he was terrible in his later years, so I don't buy off on the view that he was even a little bit better defender than Ortiz.

I think this argument might have merit when you have a player who alternates between DHing and playing a position in the field over his career. But when a guy is a pure DH for 15 years it's hard to argue that doesn't "necessarily mean anything about (his) abilities."

In any case, I don't think it much matters. We don't hypothesize about what a player might have done. We credit him for what he did. Ortiz barely put on a glove for a very long time. He simply didn't contribute at all on defense for whatever reason.

[DrungoHazewood]

I got friends who are Red Sox fans who swear up and down Big Papi is a first ballot hall of famer. I don't see him as a hall of famer juice or no juice. Hall of Pretty Good? Yea. Hall Of Fame....not so much.

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He's certainly better than Tommy McCarthy and Ray Schalk. Probably Effa Manley, too.

[El Gordo]

Paul is an artist.

Yep just like Norman Rockwell, not quite A.J. Liebling:

[25 Nuggets]

If no one wanted to read the article, why come into the thread related to the article just to complain about it? Wouldn't it have been easier to ignore the thread?

I enjoyed the article.

Good question. It's a form of protest. A protest needs an audience.