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TT: Something to consider when talking about Hyun Soo Kim

Tony-OH

By Tony-OH
in Orioles Talk

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I'm not using any projection system. He has horrible plate discipline...strikes out frequently and can't draw a walk to save his life. He's an average defender. He's a fringe bench player at best.

I'm sorry but you implying that Alvarez's upside is as high as Jackson or even Bruce is insulting our intelligence.

What is your bar for striking out frequently?

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

Posted
Posted
I'm not using any projection system. He has horrible plate discipline...strikes out frequently and can't draw a walk to save his life. He's an average defender. He's a fringe bench player at best.

I'm sorry but you implying that Alvarez's upside is as high as Jackson or even Bruce is insulting our intelligence.

There you go again. There is a grain of truth in what you are saying but then you lose all credibility in the hyperbole. MLB league average strikeout rate was 22.6% last year. Alvarez' career minor league strikeout rate is 12.2%. Less than half of MLB average.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

Posted
Posted
I'm not using any projection system. He has horrible plate discipline...strikes out frequently and can't draw a walk to save his life. He's an average defender. He's a fringe bench player at best.

I'm sorry but you implying that Alvarez's upside is as high as Jackson or even Bruce is insulting our intelligence.

No... valuing guesswork and emotion over systematic projections is insulting.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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There you go again. There is a grain of truth in what you are saying but then you lose all credibility in the hyperbole. MLB league average strikeout rate was 22.6% last year. Alvarez' career minor league strikeout rate is 12.2%. Less than half of MLB average.

When you don't care about getting the details right a 12% minor league K rate can be a 30% MLB rate.

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thezeroes Major Leaguer Rising Star

thezeroes

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I just don't know what else to tell you to make you finally realize that Alvarez isn't good. Like, the fact that you're THIS adamant about him starting is troublesome.

His ceiling is as high, maybe even lower, than Bruce and Jackson's floors offensively and no one has anything good about his defense other than "he throws hard".

You basically have told us nothing but YOU have given your unwavering undocumented opinion that seems to be second guessed by several.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I just don't know what else to tell you to make you finally realize that Alvarez isn't good. Like, the fact that you're THIS adamant about him starting is troublesome.

His ceiling is as high, maybe even lower, than Bruce and Jackson's floors offensively and no one has anything good about his defense other than "he throws hard".

So what about your statement on his K rate?

Just going to act like you didn't say it?

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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So me misspeaking means he's a good major league player?

When did I say that?

I just found it amusing that you dodged the question when called out on the statement.

I don't think he is much of a player but making contact isn't an issue.

I think you just assumed he had strikeout issues and didn't bother to check.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Posted
I just don't know what else to tell you to make you finally realize that Alvarez isn't good. Like, the fact that you're THIS adamant about him starting is troublesome.

His ceiling is as high, maybe even lower, than Bruce and Jackson's floors offensively and no one has anything good about his defense other than "he throws hard".

I think you might have a pathological problem with sticking to the facts. I've said about 23 different ways that I think Alvarez could be a kind of acceptable guy if you have to stick him in RF. I said that I thought he could be a 1-ish win player. You have now exaggerated or misrepresented that position any number of ridiculous ways, saying variously that I think he's an All Star, or a very good player, or an awesome starter, or I could go on for a while but you know what you've said.

You've also not come up with any substantive facts that suggest that the Orioles will be a lot better with Jay Bruce or Austin Jackson besides your subjective opinion. None. None whatsoever.

We kind of require evidence around here, at least when you make simple declarative statements that you portray as facts. I guess it would be fine if you prefaced your statements with "just my opinion, I really have no objective evidence to back this up" or something like that.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Posted
I think you might have a pathological problem with sticking to the facts. I've said about 23 different ways that I think Alvarez could be a kind of acceptable guy if you have to stick him in RF. I said that I thought he could be a 1-ish win player. You have now exaggerated or misrepresented that position any number of ridiculous ways, saying variously that I think he's an All Star, or a very good player, or an awesome starter, or I could go on for a while but you know what you've said.

You've also not come up with any substantive facts that suggest that the Orioles will be a lot better with Jay Bruce or Austin Jackson besides your subjective opinion. None. None whatsoever.

We kind of require evidence around here, at least when you make simple declarative statements that you portray as facts. I guess it would be fine if you prefaced your statements with "just my opinion, I really have no objective evidence to back this up" or something like that.

I miss sigs.

That would make a good sig.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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He'd have to hit .290-.300 to carry even a respectable OBP/be an average player and his minor league stats don't suggest that's possible.

His AAA numbers in a rather extreme pitcher's park have been .282/.311/.428. Projection systems translate to something like .270/.295/.425, which is a 92-94 wRC+.

Last year Jay Bruce had a .226/.294/.434 (91 wRC+) line with the Reds. The year before .217/.281/.373 (78 wRC+). How is Bruce much more likely to post a respectable OBP than Alvarez? The average MLB OBP in 2015 was .317.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

Posted
Posted
His AAA numbers in a rather extreme pitcher's park have been .282/.311/.428. Projection systems translate to something like .270/.295/.425, which is a 92-94 wRC+.

Last year Jay Bruce had a .226/.294/.434 (91 wRC+) line with the Reds. The year before .217/.281/.373 (78 wRC+). How is Bruce much more likely to post a respectable OBP than Alvarez? The average MLB OBP in 2015 was .317.

Which is one hit by pitch every two weeks different. Just teach him to lean in until he becomes disabled to get his stats up.

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