How do the 2015-16 O's compare to the 1998-99 O's?

[DrungoHazewood]

Belle made the top ten in unlikeable players list:

1. Ty Cobb

2. John Rocker

3. Albert Belle

4. Cap Anson

5. Carl Mays

6. Roger Clemens

7. Hal Chase

8. Dick Allen

9. Pete Rose

10. Reggie Jackson

Dishonorable mentions: Barry Bonds, Roberto Alomar, Steve Garvey, Carl Everett, Eddie Murray, Jim Bouton, Rickey Henderson

https://espn.go.com/page2/s/leastliked/readers/010815.html

I'm surprised by any ESPN list that includes players prior to about 1970. Three deadball era players is almost unprecedented.

Although Cobb often tops these kind of lists I think that's somewhat overblown by legend. Cobb's teammates actually went on strike in support of him, to protest a suspension. They forced the Tigers to use a bunch of sandlot and high school kids as replacement players in a real MLB game on May 18, 1912. They lost to the A's 24-2.

[DrungoHazewood]

Eddie doesnt deserve to be on this list. Eddie was well liked by his peers, Eddie had very little respect for the media and the talking heads.

Yes, I think Murray beloved by a lot of teammates, but not so much the press.

These lists are fun to talk about but partially because they're just opinion. Hal Chase was undoubtedly a vile individual but obviously exceptionally charming. He somehow convinced countless players that throwing games was the right thing to do, and I'm sure they weren't all getting rich at it. I've read that he was the kind of guy who'd sleep with your wife and convince you it made sense.

[DrungoHazewood]

The '98 team had a huge advantage over '16, which is two legitimate top-of-the-rotation SPs in Mussina and Erickson, plus Key. That team had huge holes, but also some strengths over the '16 team.

The guys who drove up the average age were actually still doing pretty well - Cal and Brady were in decline for sure, but Baines (39) still put up .819, Eric Davis (36) .970, and Palmeiro (33) .945.

We are definitely younger and still better set up to rebuild if it comes to that than we were in '98. You also look at the '98 Rochester Red Wings and it is pretty clear that our farm system was a total mess at that point.

The other thing we have along with Buck is a cohesive group around the leadership of Adam Jones. While Cal was the consummate professional, he never struck me as having that kind of leadership that rubs off on other players. The core of the '16 team has been together since 2012 and before, but '98 was Cal and Mussina and a bunch of veterans brought in from other teams. One of my absolute darkest moments as an O's fan was the Yankees brawl when Benitez drilled Tino. At that moment I really felt that I could not root for the team. I can't imagine anything like that happening with the current group, no matter how bad it gets.

I think the primary difference between that era and today is the firing of Wren and hiring of Syd Thrift. At the time I'm not sure any of us quite grasped just how out-of-touch Thrift was. The immediate aftermath of '98-99 didn't have to be another decade-plus of losing. I hope Duquette and his eventual successor are better equipped to deal with reality.

[OFFNY]

Belle made the top ten in unlikeable players list:

1. Ty Cobb

2. John Rocker

3. Albert Belle

4. Cap Anson

5. Carl Mays

6. Roger Clemens

7. Hal Chase

8. Dick Allen

9. Pete Rose

10. Reggie Jackson

Dishonorable mentions: Barry Bonds, Roberto Alomar, Steve Garvey, Carl Everett, Eddie Murray, Jim Bouton, Rickey Henderson

https://espn.go.com/page2/s/leastliked/readers/010815.html

That was ESPN's sportswriters list.

This was the fans' list from the same article:

l.1) Roger Clemens

l.2) John Rocker

l.3) Ty Cobb

l.4) Rickey Henderson

l)5) Paul O'Neill

l)6) Barry Bonds

l)7) Albert Belle

l)8) Pete Rose

l)9) Roberto Alomar

10) Dave Kingman

Dishonorable mention: Reggie Jackson, Vince Coleman, Deion Sanders, Ken Griffey Jr., Chipper Jones, Mike Piazza, Darryl Strawberry

[DrungoHazewood]

That was ESPN's sportswriters list.

This was the fans' list from the same article:

l.1) Roger Clemens

l.2) John Rocker

l.3) Ty Cobb

l.4) Rickey Henderson

l)5) Paul O'Neill

l)6) Barry Bonds

l)7) Albert Belle

l)8) Pete Rose

l)9) Roberto Alomar

10) Dave Kingman

Dishonorable mention: Reggie Jackson, Vince Coleman, Deion Sanders, Ken Griffey Jr., Chipper Jones, Mike Piazza, Darryl Strawberry

I actually like the writers' list better. How does Coleman, Sanders, Griffey, Chipper or Piazza even get a mention? Who's even thought of Vince Coleman in 20 years, and what did he ever do? I thought everyone liked Griffey.

[OFFNY]

I actually like the writers' list better. How does Coleman, Sanders, Griffey, Chipper or Piazza even get a mention? Who's even thought of Vince Coleman in 20 years, and what did he ever do? I thought everyone liked Griffey.

I liked Coleman a lot when he played. He was one of my favorites.

But in regard to your question, he once threw a lit firecracker into a crowd of fans outside of Dodger Stadium, which injured 3 kids. He was given 200 hours of community service, and the Mets suspended him without pay.

3 months prior to that, he injured Dwight Gooden's arm while he was recklessly swinging a golf club in the Mets' locker room.

[DrungoHazewood]

I liked Coleman a lot when he played. He was one of my favorites.

But in regard to your question, he once threw a lit firecracker into a crowd of fans outside of Dodger Stadium, which injured 3 kids. He was given 200 hours of community service, and the Mets suspended him without pay.

3 months prior to that, he injured Dwight Gooden's arm while he was recklessly swinging a golf club in the Mets' locker room.

Oh, okay. That seems more like immature goofing around than truly horrible behavior. And baseball, like society, isn't exactly short on folks who've done actual horrible things. I'd put LaRussa falling asleep drunk in his car at a stop light ahead of playing with a firecracker.

[Redskins Rick]

Oh, okay. That seems more like immature goofing around than truly horrible behavior. And baseball, like society, isn't exactly short on folks who've done actual horrible things. I'd put LaRussa falling asleep drunk in his car at a stop light ahead of playing with a firecracker.

I remember the two Yankee pitchers who swap wives & kids back in 73, boy what a scandal that was. LOL

[25 Nuggets]

I think the primary difference between that era and today is the firing of Wren and hiring of Syd Thrift. At the time I'm not sure any of us quite grasped just how out-of-touch Thrift was. The immediate aftermath of '98-99 didn't have to be another decade-plus of losing. I hope Duquette and his eventual successor are better equipped to deal with reality.

So true. Must spread rep.

'98-'99 could have been just a lull and not the precipice of a cliff. The stage had already been set prior however with the handling of Gillick and Johnson.

[scOtt]

I actually like the writers' list better. How does Coleman, Sanders, Griffey, Chipper or Piazza even get a mention? Who's even thought of Vince Coleman in 20 years, and what did he ever do? I thought everyone liked Griffey.

Fan's list is filled with stars who killed their favorite team? Fans hated them no matter if they were nice people or not.

[DrungoHazewood]

Fan's list is filled with stars who killed their favorite team? Fans hated them no matter if they were nice people or not.

How do you get a guy on the list of most disliked players who got 99% of the HOF vote in his first year of eligibility? I suppose it's all in the people you ask. This one must have been put together by kids who really wanted Ken Griffey's autograph but were 445th in line at the clubhouse on getaway day.

[Ohfan67]

I'm pretty sure that list was put together in 2001 and the fan part was based on the number of letters they received about each player. Just a handful of negative "votes" in the form of someone ticked off enough to mail a letter to ESPN got the player on the list. Guys, come on! We are now discussing goof ball fan hate lists from 2001! That's when you really know it's time for some real baseball!!

[Creamsicle]

much younger.

many fewer Ripkens.

MUCH better manager.