Sell high on Wieters?

[Can_of_corn]

I agree with everything you just wrote. I didn't think Parra was going to regress as much as he did or be as bad defensively as he was and I still didn't want to make a trade for him or anyone else last year. My stance was pretty clear. We were in agreement. It wasn't our year.

But the question was how do you go for it this year while also protecting the future? I don't think it can be done at this point.

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Don't make a move unless you are getting an honest to god difference maker.

At this point that is all there is left to do.

[TradeAngelos]

Man we are really going down the rabbit hole now aren't we!! We have delved allllll the way into 2018!!, Dan leaving, us rebuilding....and the horrid state of the organization 2 years ahead of time!!

I mean the critiques of the 2016 version was bad enough, but now the ante has been upped and we are into rebuild mode with the worst farm system in the league with no GM! 2 years ahead of the rest of the world!

[SteveA]

Baseball America rankings.

2009-9th

2010-8th

2011-21th

The 2011 farm system still had Machado and Britton in it so not sure why it was as low as 21st even with the lack of depth.

OK, a bit better than I thought. But we've still managed to put together a better five year run than those numbers would suggest.

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[Can_of_corn]

What a phenomenal post. This should be stickied for everyone to read at least once per week. It amazes me daily how quickly people become spoiled by positive circumstances and only expect more, more, more. It isn't a positive characteristic at all.

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Yea, I mean it certainly isn't a poor post but it doesn't consider the MLB ready players Andy acquired.

Guys like Jones and Davis were never part of the O's farm system and the current team doesn't appear to have the ability to add talent in that manner.

[24fps]

I think that blowing a World Series with 2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base in the 9th inning is worse.

More significantly, that's not the feel that I got from the OP, considering his other thread in regard to Wieters, along with some of his other not-so-uplifting threads.

My attempts at humor can get a little obscure at times so let me clarify. Count me firmly among those who believe that trading Matt Wieters this season is a non-starter. It's great to see him performing at a level somewhat close to what we expected a half-dozen years ago. I hope it continues.

Do I expect it? No. If history is any guide, by season's end he will put up numbers in the 100 wRC+/OPS+ range as usual so I'm not climbing on the Wieters train just yet. What I don't get - and I really don't get this - is the impulse to trade a contributing player on a contending team just because he's been a disappointment at times in the past. Like it or not, Duquette, Showalter and company have bet big on this team and Wieters is part of the core. At least he is for this year.

If their gamble fails, I doubt that the finger will be pointed at an unwillingness to trade Matt Wieters at a transient moment when his value was higher than normal. What I think sometimes (too often) gets lost is the understanding that players can have value on their current team as players rather than trade chips. I think this is the case with Wieters at the moment, so even thought I was against bringing him back, I certainly welcome the contributions he's making and it's only right that he stays with the team until the end of the season win or lose.

[OFFNY]

There is nothing worse in baseball than missing an opportunity to trade a player at his maximum value. Nothing. Really, it's the whole point.

Unfortunately I won't be alive for the 50th anniversary remembrance of selling high on Matt Wieters. I'm sure OPACY will be packed.

I think that blowing a World Series with 2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base in the 9th inning is worse.

More significantly, that's not the feel that I got from the OP, considering his other thread in regard to Wieters, along with some of his other not-so-uplifting threads.

My attempts at humor can get a little obscure at times so let me clarify. Count me firmly among those who believe that trading Matt Wieters this season is a non-starter. It's great to see him performing at a level somewhat close to what we expected a half-dozen years ago. I hope it continues.

Do I expect it? No. If history is any guide, by season's end he will put up numbers in the 100 wRC+/OPS+ range as usual so I'm not climbing on the Wieters train just yet. What I don't get - and I really don't get this - is the impulse to trade a contributing player on a contending team just because he's been a disappointment at times in the past. Like it or not, Duquette, Showalter and company have bet big on this team and Wieters is part of the core. At least he is for this year.

If their gamble fails, I doubt that the finger will be pointed at an unwillingness to trade Matt Wieters at a transient moment when his value was higher than normal. What I think sometimes (too often) gets lost is the understanding that players can have value on their current team as players rather than trade chips. I think this is the case with Wieters at the moment, so even thought I was against bringing him back, I certainly welcome the contributions he's making and it's only right that he stays with the team until the end of the season win or lose.

ooo oooooo oooooo

[FanSince88]

You're right, I don't like you.

Not because of this solitary thread, but because of the nature of many of the threads that you have started.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1372229

Well I'm sorry I haven't been the "correct" sort of fan in your book. I guess being a fan of the Orioles isn't enough for some people. You apparently have to be a certain type of fan -- probably the type that never finds fault with anything the franchise ever does, beyond even the level of MASN announcers.

[FanSince88]

Well I'm sorry I haven't been the "correct" sort of fan in your book. I guess being a fan of the Orioles isn't enough for some people. You apparently have to be a certain type of fan -- probably the type that never finds fault with anything the franchise ever does, beyond even the level of MASN announcers.

I apologize for my snark. I should be better than that. If this thread is no longer making a positive contribution, I'm completely fine if the mods would like to lock it.

[OFFNY]

I apologize for my snark. I should be better than that. If this thread is no longer making a positive contribution, I'm completely fine if the mods would like to lock it.

No, you weren't snarky.

In fact, you were quite mature in your response to me, which made me stop myself in the path that I was on.

Keep up the good work.

[bluedog]

First thing you can do is not trade value for non-value.

How could Dan not see the trap what was Parra last year?

Could he have been a better candidate for regression?

It was painfully obvious that Parra was not going to turn last year's team into a playoff team.

Yet Dan, desperate Dan, gave up a ML ready piece to land him.

Davies isn't an impact guy but you need players like him to make it work.

If Dan somehow manages to trade for a dial mover I won't object, I didn't object to the Miller deal.

But trading future value for a fraction of a percentage point is negligent.

Duquette has one of the highest lifetime win percentages of any GM in baseball today. I seriously get the sense from your posts that you'd rather have a losing team with a deeper farm system than what Dan's built today.

[Can_of_corn]

Duquette has one of the highest lifetime win percentages of any GM in baseball today. I seriously get the sense from your posts that you'd rather have a losing team with a deeper farm system than what Dan's built today.

I'd have rather not added in season to the 2012, 2013 and 2015 teams.

I would have been wrong in 2012.

I certainly wouldn't have sold draft picks.

[atomic]

I don't get the whole theory of this thread. It is so wrong on so many levels.

1) We wouldn't be selling high on Matt Wieters. He is healthy but other GM's know he is a career .747 OPS guy in Camden Yards. They aren't stupid. They would base the rest of the season non his career stats.

2) He is a free agent at the end of the season. Teams would get 1/2 year of Matt Wieters. A 1/2 year of Matt Wieters isn't going to get you a #2 pitcher.

3) We don't have anyone to take his place. You would be creating a huge hole in the line-up. Who would even be the back-up catcher with Joseph injured?

4) We don't need any position players. Since Matt would only get you a mediocre pitcher why trade him we could get the same for some of our prospects?

5) If the QO system is in place we would either get a pick or Matt for another year.

6) The strength of this team is you have a solid line-up from top to bottom with Matt playing. So create a weakness to get a mediocre starter?

[atomic]

Yea, I mean it certainly isn't a poor post but it doesn't consider the MLB ready players Andy acquired.

Guys like Jones and Davis were never part of the O's farm system and the current team doesn't appear to have the ability to add talent in that manner.

We just added Kim, Trumbo, Rickard, and Alvarez. Erik Bedard brought Adam Jones. Erik had seasons of 3.9 and 5.7 WAR the two years before he was traded and two years of team contol left. If you want DD to trade Machado he probably can get a similar haul as what we got for Bedard. Of course the Orioles stunk for 4 years after trading Bedard.

So yes we have the ability to add someone with the ability of Adam Jones we would just have trade Machado. Is that what you want?

[Can_of_corn]

We just added Kim, Trumbo, Rickard, and Alvarez. Erik Bedard brought Adam Jones. Erik had seasons of 3.9 and 5.7 WAR the two years before he was traded and two years of team contol left. If you want DD to trade Machado he probably can get a similar haul as what we got for Bedard. Of course the Orioles stunk for 4 years after trading Bedard.

So yes we have the ability to add someone with the ability of Adam Jones we would just have trade Machado. Is that what you want?

No, what I want to do is continue winning after Dan leaves.

Currently the O's look like they are going to be saddled with an old, relatively expensive team and a sparse farm system when Dan's contract is up.

[atomic]

No, what I want to do is continue winning after Dan leaves.

Currently the O's look like they are going to be saddled with an old, relatively expensive team and a sparse farm system when Dan's contract is up.

Before this Draft the O's had legit prospects in Cisco, Reyes, Harvey, Mountcastle, Lee, Heim and Mancini. They just drafted 41 guys. Dan will have two more drafts before his contract is up. I think with the 3 drafts and the guys we have now it is far from certain we will have a sparse farm system.