Sell high on Wieters?

[Redskins Rick]

Does OP realize how horrendous Joseph has been this year?

On both sides of the ball.

I don't see where Matt could bring back a pitcher that would make up for Joseph getting that much more playing time.

Honestly I'm not sure I want Joseph over Pena when he gets back.

Buck said Caleb would be hitting better, if he got more playing time.

[Can_of_corn]

Buck said Caleb would be hitting better, if he got more playing time.

What else would you expect Buck to say?

I don't think he's every started even 100 games in a season at Catcher. I have my doubts he could hold up under the typical starter catcher workload.

[Redskins Rick]

What else would you expect Buck to say?

I don't think he's every started even 100 games in a season at Catcher. I have my doubts he could hold up under the typical starter catcher workload.

I think Caleb showed a better bat, when playing regularly in the previous 2 seasons.

[Can_of_corn]

I think Caleb showed a better bat, when playing regularly in the previous 2 seasons.

I don't think you can present any compelling evidence to support that hypothesis.

Of course I can't prove that his struggles this season will continue.

What I can say is that he did not look like a starting catcher to me this season.

[Redskins Rick]

I don't think you can present any compelling evidence to support that hypothesis.

Of course I can't prove that his struggles this season will continue.

What I can say is that he did not look like a starting catcher to me this season.

Would not the evidence be, that in 2015, when playing 100 games, he batted .234 and .693 OPS, which way significantly better than his .452 OPS of this season.

[Frobby]

Does OP realize how horrendous Joseph has been this year?

On both sides of the ball.

What defensive shortcomings have you seen from Joseph this year? He has a pretty good CS% (35%), which is probably dragged down by the fact that he caught Ubaldo a disproportionate number of times. He has one error and one passed ball. I haven't really seen any glaring defensive issues with him, though he's always been a little weak at preventing wild pitches from getting past him IMO.

Offensively he was having a very poor year, no doubt about it. I'd certainly expect him to do better as the season goes along, though he's clearly an inferior hitter to Wieters.

[Ohfan67]

DD is not going to trade Wieters unless the Orioles fall completely out of the pennant race. Even then DD will think very seriously about offering Wieters the qualifying offer again.

[LookinUp]

Wasn't Caleb also the star of pitch framing metrics?

All things being equal, if we could resign Wieters, we should just do that. However, if this offseason is anything like last, we are probably not close in terms of evaluating his value. Teams have to be realistic with this stuff. I just feel like the O's will hold him and get a pick that will likely never be worth much of anything.

I should also say that I don't buy into this win-now narrative unless we have a drastic upgrade in SP in the next few months. Even if we make the playoffs, I can't imagine a scenario where our pitching is good enough to win. I'd rather get something for the guys we're unlikely to resign now.

[Can_of_corn]

What defensive shortcomings have you seen from Joseph this year? He has a pretty good CS% (35%), which is probably dragged down by the fact that he caught Ubaldo a disproportionate number of times. He has one error and one passed ball. I haven't really seen any glaring defensive issues with him, though he's always been a little weak at preventing wild pitches from getting past him IMO.

Offensively he was having a very poor year, no doubt about it. I'd certainly expect him to do better as the season goes along, though he's clearly an inferior hitter to Wieters.

He's been out a while and honestly I don't recall any plays in specific.

The feeling I got watching him this season was that his defense was not where it was his first two seasons.

Trying to parse metrics would be an exercise in futility so I will just say he didn't do well in my eye test.

[LookinUp]

He's been out a while and honestly I don't recall any plays in specific.

The feeling I got watching him this season was that his defense was not where it was his first two seasons.

Trying to parse metrics would be an exercise in futility so I will just say he didn't do well in my eye test.

If you could do Wieters for Wheeler, would you? Note that Wheeler has been out with TJ and hasn't come back yet. He's slated for a mid-July return and the discussion is whether he'll bump Bartolo Colon from the starting rotation.

[Can_of_corn]

If you could do Wieters for Wheeler, would you? Note that Wheeler has been out with TJ and hasn't come back yet. He's slated for a mid-July return and the discussion is whether he'll bump Bartolo Colon from the starting rotation.

No....

[LookinUp]

No....

Ok. The case for a trade is we'd have several years of club control and he has high upside as a starter.

The case against is either 1) you're more focused on this year, and would prefer Wieters or 2) you don't really like Wieters.

If we did make this trade, we could always try to resign Wieters in the offseason. I doubt the fact that a pick wouldn't be attached would make much of a difference in his value, which will either be high or medium, and if his value's only medium after this season, I'm not sure he's much of a loss.

[Aristotelian]

If you could do Wieters for Wheeler, would you? Note that Wheeler has been out with TJ and hasn't come back yet. He's slated for a mid-July return and the discussion is whether he'll bump Bartolo Colon from the starting rotation.

Very hard to say. If our doctors had access to do a thorough examination and our scouts could look at him and give us a reliable report that he is healthy, I would absolutely do that. But I don't think that's how these things work. We would be trading our starting catcher for a guy who is damaged goods and no idea if he is healthy or not.

[Tx Oriole]

No....

I agree with you.

[LookinUp]

Very hard to say. If our doctors had access to do a thorough examination and our scouts could look at him and give us a reliable report that he is healthy, I would absolutely do that. But I don't think that's how these things work. We would be trading our starting catcher for a guy who is damaged goods and no idea if he is healthy or not.

First, I should state clearly that I'm talking about what I'd do, not what the O's would do. I think we're risk averse and prefer to fool ourselves into thinking we're contenders. I actually think we could contend, but not without a significant SP addition, or two.

With that said, I expect that he's already (or will soon be) making rehab starts. We'd get a sense of his stuff and I'm sure we'd get medicals. I wouldn't want him if he looks like damanged goods. I would want him if his stuff looks good with the full expectation that he'll be an upgrade this year (who wouldn't), but would really start to payoff in future years.